Will supercharging surpass turbo as best power enhancement?

[LazyBastard]

Yo! Chill out the both of you!

You're both right, you're just not communicating.

And the evil flames aren't helping.

 

[spray25]

Even if you enguaged the sled at 10000 RPM's you wouldn't build boost on the line.

Something must be wrong with my boost gauge then, cause when I rev my sled up (under the engagment rpm of 4,000) my needle shows boost.

 

[jtssrx]

jtssrx wrote:
Where have I spewed misinformation? Find some posts to back you statement.


Look at the quote in my previous post.

That's your opinion. As usual you take shoots with no facts.

Again "Turbos do in fact have lag, however, if it is setup properly it is so minimal that it is almost immeasurable by a layman." Key word LAYMAN.

Thank you for helping to prove my point.

This is where you prove my point. 1 tenth is equal to about 1 sled length in a drag race. So any true race sled running 250hp is going to put about 5 sleds on Neon Phil out of the whole. More to the Point they do put 5 sleds or more on him. The cool thing about his sled is he makes so much power he runs everyone down. There is a really good running REV here with a Tripple\Tripple Price motor. It makes about 225 hp. Phil is making about 325. The last time they raced they tied every time with the REV putting about 4 to 5 on him out of the hole and Phil running him down.

jtssrx wrote:
Quote:
Only in certain situations. Not all situations as your statement implies.


Where did i say "ALL"? I said in the right hands. Plus I assume most people are smart enough to read between the lines. Sorry you didn't get that.

Find a dictionary and look up the word "implies". Then go read your statement again. While you are there look up layman.

I'm not implying anything. You’re interrupting what I said and not doing a very good job of it. I said in the right hands. Plus that's my opinion. Opinions are like ASS__HOLES everyone’s got one.

You did not say 250 vs. 250. You said 250 vs. 300. Nor did you say in a specific type of drag race situation. There are many situations where the extra 50 HP makes a tremendous difference. One such situation is in a hill climb where the loss of 50 HP may mean the difference in the sled even making it to the top much less winning.

I was only giving scenarios here. I was trying to spell it out since you keep telling me I'm implying things, so I thought I better spell it out for as you say "The laymen" on the site.

In your first post on this subject you said:

"In the right hands a 250 hp Super charger will smoke a 300 plus HP turbo. Unless the Turbo has no lag. I only know of one out there like that. "

If you were not referencing LP then who were you referencing? I agree this topic has little to do with LP so why did you bring them up? Why don't you own an LP turbo anymore?

1. Yes I was

2. it’s really none of your concern. But I'll tell you why. My references to LP are based on actual experiences against other Turbo sleds. When we run sleds here we use gauges to acquire Data. The data shows lag. You can't dispute that fact.

3. The Turbo was going to be a drag race sled only. I couldn’t justify the money for a sled I'd use 6 times a year. So I sold the turbo and put my sled back to stock. The guy running the Turbo now flat out loves it and has posted that several times on this board and AMSNOW as well.

cannot speak to there specific applications or situations, however, your experience differs greatly from mine and many others. Further if you could "feel the boost come one after the hole shot" then that directly contradicts the information you gave above about the lag of .7 to 1 second of lag. Unless of course you were only hitting the button for .5 seconds.

So you’re telling me a 110 hp hit from a turbo will not be felt??? Ray your just flat out wrong. These guys were running 19 pounds of boost. The NOS ran until it hit 4 pounds of boost. It was only for hole shoot improvement At that point the sled made full boost and you had over a 110 hp hit. These sleds made about 290hp on 19 pounds on the dyno.

Your statement seems to contradict itself. "I don't a want sudden burst of power.......... If I could choose 250hp instantly or 300 hp 1 second later I choose instant power." Please explain what you mean.

I would prefer a sled that made 250HP "instantly". I wouldn't care about the extra 50 plus hp if it came with lag.

I'm glad you like them although if you rode the three Bender setups mentioned above I have no idea why you would. I am well aware of what this conversation is about. Where did I say it was strictly about rear mounts? Please read my comments more carefully in the future.

I like the feel of 300 plus hp. I wouldn't own one but that doesn't mean I don't like them. I read your comments and I know your game!!!!

 

[jtssrx]

Something must be wrong with my boost gauge then, cause when I rev my sled up (under the engagment rpm of 4,000) my needle shows boost.



Congrats.

Hey have you been able to ride your sled for more then 45 minutes this year without having to take it back to garage???

 

[jtssrx]

Ya mine would boost to about 5 pounds on the stand when you'd wrapp the throttle then it would go into vac.

 

[LazyBastard]

I have to say you guys, spray25... I think he's got you on this one. It might be boosted a bit when you're just revving it under 4k, but it won't give you enough volume to keep up with the motor suddenly sucking at WOT.

 

[spray25]

1 tenth is equal to about 1 sled length in a drag race. So any true race sled running 250hp is going to put about 5 sleds on Neon Phil out of the whole. More to the Point they do put 5 sleds or more on him. The cool thing about his sled is he makes so much power he runs everyone down. There is a really good running REV here with a Tripple\Tripple Price motor. It makes about 225 hp. Phil is making about 325. The last time they raced they tied every time with the REV putting about 4 to 5 on him out of the hole and Phil running him down.

So then you ARE talking about the specific act of drag racing. So you open ended statement that a 250hp supercharger will beat a 300hp turbo was directed at drag racing. As I said before there are many other areas of sledding where the extra 50hp would make a diferrence.

I'm not implying anything. You’re interrupting what I said and not doing a very good job of it. I said in the right hands. Plus that's my opinion. Opinions are like ASS__HOLES everyone’s got one.

How did I interupt you? Here is your statement in it's entirity: "in the right hands a 250 hp Super charger will smoke a 300 plus HP turbo. Unless the Turbo has no lag. I only know of one out there like that. LOL"

There I didn't interupt you. Your statement still only has limited truth to it. It applies to short drag races (and possibley other situations). It does not apply to many other aspects of sledding such as hillclimbing. My point has been and will continue to be that your statement was broad and not accurate for many applications.

I was only giving scenarios here. I was trying to spell it out since you keep telling me I'm implying things, so I thought I better spell it out for as you say "The laymen" on the site.

You already splled it out perfectly "in the right hands a 250 hp Super charger will smoke a 300 plus HP turbo. Unless the Turbo has no lag. I only know of one out there like that. LOL" What we are now learning is that you are saying this is true if it is a race that is setup to the advantage of the supercharger.

2. it’s really none of your concern. But I'll tell you why. My references to LP are based on actual experiences against other Turbo sleds. When we run sleds here we use gauges to acquire Data. The data shows lag. You can't dispute that fact.

You crack me up. You jump me for bringing up LP yet you were the one that brought them up to begin with. As far being none of my concern.... I do not have to, nor will I ever get your permission on what I can or cannot talk about.

I have never said there was no lag. Read back through the posts. What I have consistantly said that many people, like you, mischaracterize the lag and try to make it sound much larger than it really is.

So you’re telling me a 110 hp hit from a turbo will not be felt??? Ray your just flat out wrong. These guys were running 19 pounds of boost. The NOS ran until it hit 4 pounds of boost. It was only for hole shoot improvement At that point the sled made full boost and you had over a 110 hp hit. These sleds made about 290hp on 19 pounds on the dyno.

I am telling you that I know nothing about there setups. That was in black an white. Jason, do you have a hard time reading? I understand that many people in the US suffer from that problem. I'm sorry. It is very possible for a sled with 400 hp to loose a race if the sled is setup wrong. I have no idea if the sleds were right or wrong, but I do know that what you are reporting for results is dramatically diferrent from what I have seen. As for being WRONG you might want to check your numbers. 110 horsepower on top of 140 for stock is only 250 HP and should only take 11 lbs of boost. Then you say 290hp with 19 lbs. 290 minus 110hp equals a 180 base HP number. Something in your numbers does not compute. This couldn't possible be more misinformation could it? Nah not from the Honest Abe, Jason.

I would prefer a sled that made 250HP "instantly". I wouldn't care about the extra 50 plus hp if it came with lag.

If we are talking about short drag races I would probably agree. However, I would not agree for every situation.

 

[spray25]

Hey have you been able to ride your sled for more then 45 minutes this year without having to take it back to garage???

Haven't had the sled in the garage at all since I left for my first ride. She's running good. Been on three rides this year and she has sat in the trailer in between rides. Did change my pitot jet once because I put a small one in for the first ride with the LC pistons. That was just a cautionary step on my part.

 

[spray25]

I have to say you guys, spray25... I think he's got you on this one. It might be boosted a bit when you're just revving it under 4k, but it won't give you enough volume to keep up with the motor suddenly sucking at WOT.

I have no idea what it will do if you set your engagement to 10k. I will never try it either. I can only imagine what might happen to any sled with that high of an engagement. Turbo or not.

I was merely observing that with a quick throttle blurp under 4000 I show a small amount of boost. I kind of think you would have SOME boost at 10k, unlike Jason saying there would be none, howerver, I will readily admit I do not know this for fact.

 

[jtssrx]

I am telling you that I know nothing about there setups. That was in black an white. Jason, do you have a hard time reading? I understand that many people in the US suffer from that problem. I'm sorry. It is very possible for a sled with 400 hp to loose a race if the sled is setup wrong. I have no idea if the sleds were right or wrong, but I do know that what you are reporting for results is dramatically diferrent from what I have seen. As for being WRONG you might want to check your numbers. 110 horsepower on top of 140 for stock is only 250 HP and should only take 11 lbs of boost. Then you say 290hp with 19 lbs. 290 minus 110hp equals a 180 base HP number. Something in your numbers does not compute. This couldn't possible be more misinformation could it? Nah not from the Honest Abe, Jason.

Look at my post again. I said at 4 pounds boost the NOS kicks off and it goes to full boost. 4 pounds on a Bender is 180hp. 180 hp plus 110 is 290 So my numbers do compute.



I'm done.


Have a good one and I hope you have a great season. Tell Ryan I said hello and I'm sorry it didn't work out with him and LP. Have a fun on the Mccall ride

 

[superschlamper]

keep goin guys

im gettin addicted 2 readin ur comments
i keep learnin somethin new i think!!!
stilll dont know where to go but its interesting
make sure the argument is settled by the new year!!!!

 

[Rockmeister]

I owned a Turbo car and now own a Supercharged car.

My current vehicle is a Pontiac GTP.
I can honestly say, the Supercharger is seamless in operation, no lag at all.
(Very fun to drive! lol)
My Turbo did have a noticeable lag.
In all fairness, this is a somewhat different application and the parameters are different.

I personally would like to go with a Supercharger with no lag and less heat under the hood, unfortunately Turbos are much cheaper right now.
Not many small Superchargers are manufactured on a large scale to get the cost down.

SeaDoo has one on one of their watercraft that is about the right size, but it has reliability issues.

 

[Skydog]

Yea so far i just LOVE LOVE the supercharger over the turbo for what i do!!!!

Skydog

 

[yammiman]

...disappear like Keyser Soze?? (movie trivia, who knows it???)...

The Usual Suspects - thought I'd throw that in!!

Skydog - keep us updated on your SC Nytro - very interested in how it works out!!

 

[Skydog]

Will do buddy!!! But like i said so far!! HAHAHAHAHAH