XTX gear

[ATV PRO #11]

OneGuy, I'm super glad to hear your OK!!
Secondly, thanks for your feedback.
Comparing my XTX to my old 07 there totally differenct machines but yet the 8" driver is the only difference.
Playing with Jamie (71rdrnr) mines like a rocket to 80-90km then he passes me with way more top end.
I gotta find that ballence, been reading and reading and finally had the courage to pull the secondary and take 10* out. Heck I thought i'd need an impact to get that bolt off....barley took anything to spin it off.
Question: I've read your belt should be 1/8" over the top of the secondary, is yours? Mines about 1/8' below. Have to read up on how to adjust that.
Yami rep stated to me the XTX's were set up from factory for higher altitudes. Just like the MTX's.
Question 2: Do you happen to know what weights you applied to tip, mid and heal?
I asked my wife tonight where I can buy one of those scales, watching a show on TV that uses them all the time, and she laughed at me. I told her I want to scale and keep track of my weights in my clutch, and I don't want people to think i'm into that crap.
Also, not to dis in anyway where your at, i'm at the exact same rpm playing but your top end is looking great but I really think you should get your RPM lower. Everything i've read here says to keep it no higher than 11,500 to maintain longevity in the motor and keep it happy. Makes you wonder why Yami wouldn't have it more dialed in being 7 years old in the marketand in a happier RPM range to lesson the chance of a warrenty claim........

 

[71rdrnr]

Playing with Jamie (71rdrnr) mines like a rocket to 80-90km then he passes me with way more top end........

Oh sure rub it in....[emoji13][emoji13][emoji13]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[ThatOneGuy'sBrother]

Have not checked where my belt is riding. My dad mentioned the same thing to diagnose a clutch. He used to race sleds back in the day. I was planning on diagnosing where the belt was ending up until the oops. My rpms do not get that high till about 75 mph or so. From 60 - 70 it is around 11,600. I am happy with that. It doesn't hit 12,000 till about 75 or so and climbs from there. The normal operating speeds for the trails around here have the rpms around 11,200. That's a lot better than when I started. I don't know the weights of the rivets. I just asked my Yamaha dealer for the biggest ones Yamaha offers. I read on a clutching forum on here late one night what that size was. But I don't remember. They sure are fat and huge compared to the stock ones. My girlfriends dad has a gram scale. He uses it for packaging meat. We do our own venison. But it was not accurate enough. It needs to be a mili gram scale! don't get the two confused. I did try to weigh everything when I changed it. But it was not accurate enough. I will say it was a very simple change. With the weights in the tip and middle it effects the high and mid speeds. As this is where the weights have the most effect and leverage in these locations. I have not tried the bottom one for fear I will get it to bog down too much off the line. I don't want it to loose the power at low speeds for when we get deep snow. That's when this sled should really shine! I have the Yamaha front float plate and bumper. Can not wait to see how much snow it will go through. That is if we ever get a good amount of snow. We barely have enough to open some of our tails right now.

 

[ATV PRO #11]

Thanks.
I'm around those same numbers as well RPM wise. Spent hours reading.
I noticed even tho ours have a 19T w/8" drivers they have the lowest "secondary reduction ratio" of all FX, RTX, MTX. So i'm still trying to figure this all out.
Really, with the higher top gear of the bunch (minus the 20 for the 07GT) we should have alot more top end then bottom end.

 

[ThatOneGuy'sBrother]

My brothers sled runs about the same RPMs as mine when at WOT. But when just cruising his shifts different and requires so much less throttle. I think that is due to the different ramp helix in the secondary. I agree my sled sure seems like it has enough power for a few more MPH. Its just not shifting up all of the way. I have no idea why it is not shifting up any more. This is where an aftermarket clutch kit has everything figured out for you. But I enjoy a challenge. And I don't want to drop the rpms too much so it still performs in deep snow. The rpms for my normal trail riding are set good enough for me. But more top speed never hurts. I don't know the gear and driver of my brothers sled has. I know it has extravert drivers so that means its not stock. It also has the 144 MTN tamer rear skid.

 

[ThatOneGuy'sBrother]

 

[ThatOneGuy'sBrother]

Just figured out how to upload pictures. She don't look this good any more after the gate.

 

[ATV PRO #11]

Looks good.
Smart with the extra wheels, i'll be doing the same thing but abit further back. (where the majority of wear on stock hyfax was and where the DuPonts stop with those bar things in them. They stop about where your extra wheel is now which doesn't make sense)
Also, looks like you moved your ski bushings to the outside. Find it handle better??
Did you need a special tool to put the new weights in? They look aluminum.
I found this on this site, not sure if you read up on it. Some of it is a bit dated it seems but sure is helping me understand.

http://www.totallyamaha.com/snowmobiles/aaTECH/drivespecs/Rivets_Rollers.htm

 

[ThatOneGuy'sBrother]

I used a hammer to peen them over. They feel like a really mild steel. Not aluminum! The rivets I drilled out of the stock weights were not aluminum. But they drilled very easy. I am not sure if that's the proper way to install rivets. That's how my dad said to do it.

 

[ThatOneGuy'sBrother]

They were the 4.5 gram weights by that chart.

 

[ATV PRO #11]

It also slipped the belt a lot below 20 mph. Some times it would slip the belt up to 30 mph. One thing I noticed right away is that my XTX read a lot slower speed on the dreamometer. His read much higher. .

What Belt, out of curiousity, do you have on yours?

Also, I will add, I run around with a GPS in my back pack. Every reading on on it was pretty much accurate to the DreamMeter. I saw 113Km/h and GPS would show top speed at 113.
This has been for 5-6 rides already.

Max I've seen 119 @ 12,700
Average i've seen 113 @ 12,300
In fresh powder, on trail, it holds 11,300rpm throughout the shift.

Reading alot last night to understand things again. I need a ride to clear the brain lol.

Page 2 of our manual, do you know what the reduction ratio means? There is 2 spots is says it with 2 different numbers? Being the lowest of the models. I think we need to change things to meet that in order to even up the models. gear, clutch, spring I have now idea but it's in that number........I think

 

[blueironranger]

keep adding heavier rivets! 11,600 isn't bad but if you can get it down a touch more you will notice a difference. The factory Secondary is a pain in the butt to change the belt height on. I actually gave up on the stock secondary when I couldn't dial in consistent RPM's and tossed a new style Vmax secondary on it and it holds RPM better and very easy to change settings on. Here is what mine runs currently with fully loaded MTX (8DN) weights, MTX 8 tooth drivers, 19T upper gear (same drivers/gearing/track as XTX) The MTX weights have a heavy tip profile that helps keep the upper end RPMS in check.
Engagement ~4200rpm
WOT 11,300 bottom to top
cruising speed 9000rpm @ 50 mph
cruising speed 10,000rpm @ 70mph
WOT pull on hardpack, runs out of gear @ 87mph on the speedo and pulls to 92 on the speedo where it will hit the rev limiter (under ideal conditions, been clocked at 84mph on Radar tickling the rev limiter)
Deep powder ~10800 rpm with 40+ mph track speed

 

[MikeWalters]

Yes just hammer the rivets in. If there is a proper way I have never seen it. I got more consistency with aftermarket primary weights (ulmer). Although in hindsight I would have got Schmidt weights, they use screws instead, way faster to install if you're trying to tune (someone correct me if I'm wrong there)

And like blueiron said the YVX secondary is the way to go. The money you would spend on a new helix for the old style secondary is not worth it. Those YVX's are all over ebay, cheap. the process to install them is easy, and just requires a machined spacer. Easy, cheap. Lots of helix's available, super fast to change preload, etc, etc.

I also moved my ski bushings to get a wider stance, mostly for low-speed stability when riding 3-up LOL. Kid in front and kid in back on the Seat-Jack 2-up seat. It really helped for that, but made it a bit harder to carve in POW.

When I go 144 someday I will move the bushings full inward to get a bit narrow stance for carving. Also, moving the skis outwards can make for some truck/trailering issues, you will be 48" wide outside ski-to-ski.

 

[ATV PRO #11]

Messed around yesterday some more with Secondary. Still havent touched the primary. Mainly to learn and be a bit more hands on as I said, my last one I just rode and rode. Just pulled up beside shop, I think it was -35 with chill all day, -42 over night, but spun belt off, pulled secondary and into the cave to adjust. Honestly it wasn't all that bad to do. Quick by my 4th adjustment.
I went to Helix chart and went back and forth 10-20* with small results. TO scared to go to far and I cant wrap any further by myself.

Huge thanks to @Yamahas09 for his utube vid. Set my mind at ease to try myself.

B1, MTX setting huge track spin and made TP. Never seen that behind my sled before.
Anyway, I'm hitting limiter with all settings bottom and top. I'm going to say I have some hands on experience now and going to cave and call for a kit from one of the vendors. I know it's not a fix, but i'll put me in,probably, the best starting place I can be. AFterall, I want to just ride.

 

[ThatOneGuy'sBrother]

My end goal is to get good enough top end to keep up better without hitting the rev limiter, get good fuel mileage, and just have a good fun reliable phazer for many years down the road. I am not far from having the clutching acceptable for me. I will not get the stock clutching work as good as my brothers sled. And I don't expect it to. But the stock clutching with no alterations is absolute crap for our elevation! I will play with it more when it get the rest of the sled fixed from the oops.

My belt is the stock belt that came with the sled. Don't know the exact number for it. Going to keep it that way.

I moved the ski stance out due to the tuner skis. When you turn the ski tips. When it tips it steers off of the inside wear bar. Or the narrow inside part of the ski. To get this centered better on the spindle I moved the bushings. So far I like it. helps some with cornering. But not a huge difference. What made the biggest difference was when I dropped the spring rate on the front shocks to lower the CG.

I am going to upload pictures of the damage to my sled when the gate blew and swong into the trail. Spearing me off the sled. I am feeling much better now. I can breathe much better and my knee is not as swelled up. I am wondering if any one on here has phazers parted out. I would guess someone does. The great thing is that almost all phazer parts are the same with different colors. I will need a new seat for sure. Thinking of getting an all black seat. Then painting the front blue V air box cover black for a total black sled other than the aluminum. So I would like to find a used all black seat. Or if there is an aftermarket all black seat that has more padding? My gf does not like the stock phazer seat. So if there is a quality all black aftermarket seat available that would be worth looking at as well. The right hand plastic panel I will like as well. Black like the stock one. The handlebar is slightly tweaked. But the main problem is the right hand hand warmer got cut by the gate. Going to need to replace the hand wamer. I just buy a new one. I was going to install the stock windshield anyway. The gf is too short to see over the big windshield. Any input to seats and right hand panel is appreciated. Thanks!