yamacharger / need help no gains

[87gtNOS]

just a thought on air leakage, at idle say 1500rpm, the throttle plates are closed. the air has to go somewhere, even at 1500 rpm it must move some air. as for no power gains with only 1.5 -2 lbs max at 10800 rpm, any other leaks will be critical.

At that rpm the engine will draw more air than the blower would provide and still creating a vacum. This is what is confusing me how the yamcharger can make any boost.....it is a compressor so for example, when you leave the drain plug open (the vavle) on a shop compressor watch the gauge it won't hold any psi and on only a 1/4 inch hole. So to you that have the yamcharger that know how much air is leaking knows what I am talking about......it's alot more than that little 1/4 hole in alittle shop compressor.

Yamerhamer...there are three 1/2" holes in the plate behind the impeller....and mine still makes 2 lbs of boost!! It's irrelevant.


Remember, on your car, your boost gauge will show vacuum at idle because it is referencing boost from the intake, AFTER the throttle body.
With the Y/C, we are referencing boost from the airbox, BEFORE the throttlebody. SO the blades are closed, and the boost has to BLEED off somewhere! (this is why MPI S/C's show boost at idle!!) If it had a blow off valve, the BOV would be set to bleed off the air at idle. Instead, the Y/C just bleeds it off behind the housing.

At idle, my sled shows 0.1 lbs of boost!

 

[gsxr]

Yamerhamer...there are three 1/2" holes in the plate behind the impeller....and mine still makes 2 lbs of boost!! It's irrelevant.


IRRELEVANT , YOU SAY !

Obviously , It can't make pressure leaking that volume.
Plus all the slots that lock the outer housing on are open when installed , 12 slots @ 1/8 x 1 in

Have you ever seen a turbo or sc that works with air leaks in the system.

Take your charge tube off , start your engine , cover with your hand , feel and see no pressure !!!

 

[87gtNOS]

Yamerhamer...there are three 1/2" holes in the plate behind the impeller....and mine still makes 2 lbs of boost!! It's irrelevant.


IRRELEVANT , YOU SAY !

Obviously , It can't make pressure leaking that volume.
Plus all the slots that lock the outer housing on are open when installed , 12 slots @ 1/8 x 1 in

Have you ever seen a turbo or sc that works with air leaks in the system.

Take your charge tube off , start your engine , cover with your hand , feel and see no pressure !!!

again, gsxr, my boost gauge says 2 lbs of boost!! Cruising at part throttle nets me 1.5 lbs!

 

[YamerHammer]

Yamerhamer...there are three 1/2" holes in the plate behind the impeller....and mine still makes 2 lbs of boost!! It's irrelevant.


IRRELEVANT , YOU SAY !

Obviously , It can't make pressure leaking that volume.
Plus all the slots that lock the outer housing on are open when installed , 12 slots @ 1/8 x 1 in

Have you ever seen a turbo or sc that works with air leaks in the system.

Take your charge tube off , start your engine , cover with your hand , feel and see no pressure !!!

That is my point, throttle blades closed or not the engine still need air to run (has to go through the throttle bodies closed blades or not needs air) and when you take the charge tube off there is no way as of any car, truck, sled, that runs boost this way. There are so many guy's running there turbo or supercharged sleds that don't have blow off valves and they produce way more air than the yamcharger. So where does there air go on those system.....Bingo, it just provides air for the motor to run, might be a small amount of boost in the intercooler but nothing really. The BOV just lets pressure off on boost levels and solves engine run on and pressure on the cold side....much easier on turbo or supercharger and intercooler will stay on TB's.

again, gsxr, my boost gauge says 2 lbs of boost!! Cruising at part throttle nets me 1.5 lbs!

You are oviously making power off of this cause you are adding weigh.....I would just like to know what was wrong with the system I tested

 

[kviper]

My gauge is a vacuum/boost gauge. When the sled is not running it shows 0.0, When I start it cold and it is on fast idle it will read .2 ish and when it comes back to normal idle it will show 0.0 to 0.1 and shows .3 to .4 (about 4 hp) at clutch engagement. I have all the same hole's leaking air as all the rest of the Charger's and it will give me 1.8 to 2.0 lb at WOT. IT IS NOT THE LEAKAGE AROUND THE BACK SIDE OF THE BACKING PLATE THAT IS THE PROBLEM!!!!! The tolerances that the Charger is made to will not create more than 2 lb boost no mater how tight you seal it up but the cfm it blows will easily make up for the leak's. If it is making no additional power there is something else wrong. On another note if your unit is not working for some reason call G-Force and they will help you. Danny is very knowledgable and always willing to help. We all have the same kit's but there is one here and there that has an issue for some reason, You just need to find your problem. Maybe some atmospheric presure censor's are not working wright and they are running very lean. That's why I have AFR gauge and boost gauge. I know exactly what my kit and motor is doing all the time and it works.

 

[gsxr]

Your gauge is wrong , at idle and part throttle it should read vacuum. A -2 to -3.

That is how you see ++ 2 lbs

 

[kviper]

My gauge is very accurate and the pressure it reads matched CPRs gauge on the dyno perfectly. The reason it don't read any vacuum is because the charger is putting air to the motor at idle and the gauge takes it's reading before the Throttle plates inside the plenum. Just take the short piece between the housing and plenum out and hold your hand in front of the outlet. you will realize the volume of air you are feeling behind the plate is nothing in comparison. You can not compare a Turbo or regular supercharger to this unit. It is intentionally designed this way to keep the boost within the perameter's that the stock injection system can fuel for. GSXR I still say there was something else going on with your sled. Did you ever get the chance to run yours stock against the other stocker? Allan Ulmer just told me the other day that he needed 4 more gram's of weight added to his 2011 after the Charger install.

 

[**sj**]

there surely seems to be a results diving line between the canucks and yanks....I really bet fuel quality is an issue...and not necessarily octane...and fuel quantity...ala power commander

 

[Turk]

I believe it,s a needs more fuel thingy. Mine seems to run like a scalded cat on low barometric air days. When the barometer gets higher it tends to get slower. Gonna run a pc5 next winter & see how that fixes things. I get very good quality premium most of the time
& it,s all non-ethanol.

 

[kviper]

Not all but most of the premium in the us has no ethanol. Turk what elevation are you at. Maybe the stock fuel system is running out of ability at lower elevation's where more fuel is needed also ethanol I think requires more fueling. I know one thing for sure my 07 has shown the power gain from day one. Just strange how one shows up here and there that is coming up short. It would also be interesting to plug in a different barometric pressure censor. Maybe there are a few here and there that are not working wright, Maybe not detectable stock but when a bigger pressure change is censed it don't read it correctly and they come up lean. An AFR gauge would tell the story.

 

[YamerHammer]

My gauge is very accurate and the pressure it reads matched CPRs gauge on the dyno perfectly. The reason it don't read any vacuum is because the charger is putting air to the motor at idle and the gauge takes it's reading before the Throttle plates inside the plenum. Just take the short piece between the housing and plenum out and hold your hand in front of the outlet. you will realize the volume of air you are feeling behind the plate is nothing in comparison. You can not compare a Turbo or regular supercharger to this unit. It is intentionally designed this way to keep the boost within the perameter's that the stock injection system can fuel for. GSXR I still say there was something else going on with your sled. Did you ever get the chance to run yours stock against the other stocker? Allan Ulmer just told me the other day that he needed 4 more gram's of weight added to his 2011 after the Charger install.

If you ever get a chance to put your hand infront of a mpi super charger at 5 psi with the charge tube off at ide and compair it to your yamcharger at idle it will blow your mind how much more air a real super charger produces and yet the sled still pulls vacum.

This is what gsxr is talking about.

 

[87gtNOS]

If you ever get a chance to put your hand infront of a mpi super charger at 5 psi with the charge tube off at ide and compair it to your yamcharger at idle it will blow your mind how much more air a real super charger produces and yet the sled still pulls vacum.

This is what gsxr is talking about.

Again....no one read my post. Where do you reference your boost from on the supercharged sled???

On my Vortech powered Mustang, if you reference boost BEFORE the throttle body, there is NO vacuum....just boost, unless the BOV is relieving air. However, the boost is actually referenced in the intake manifold and therefore, when the car idles, there is vacuum because of the restriction of the throttle blade.

And likewise, our Apexes with the Yamachager, reference boost in the air box. If we reference the boost from one of the nipples on the backside of the throttle bodies, we will see the vacuum at idle.

 

[kviper]

Exactly!!!!!! My Mustang shows vacuum at idle as well but is monitored after the throttle plate also. Man this is not rocket science.

 

[kviper]

I will say it one more time! You can't compare the two. The Yam charger is 2 lb max at WOT and the very loose tolerances that it is made to is for a reason. As I said in a prior post, There is another problem besides the kit like a couple bed atmospheric pressure censor's not reading the extra pressure or something. It sounded like GSXR was comming up short on his barometric pressure reading, Could have been the censor and then it would have been lean and could have kicked the knock censor pulling timing. A lot of possibilities but every one points the finger at the Charger instead of doing a thorough job of finding the problem. THEY DO WORK IF EVERYTHING IS WRIGHT!

 

[**sj**]

I will say it one more time! You can't compare the two. The Yam charger is 2 lb max at WOT and the very loose tolerances that it is made to is for a reason. As I said in a prior post, There is another problem besides the kit like a couple bed atmospheric pressure censor's not reading the extra pressure or something. It sounded like GSXR was comming up short on his barometric pressure reading, Could have been the censor and then it would have been lean and could have kicked the knock censor pulling timing. A lot of possibilities but every one points the finger at the Charger instead of doing a thorough job of finding the problem. THEY DO WORK IF EVERYTHING IS WRIGHT!

this was my thoughts exactly...(assuming there were no leaks)

curious to know the effect of the barometric sensor....and if is what I think....to lean or richen ...then it seems plausible for a electronic engineer to develop some sort of rheostat to dial in a set baro reading as opposed to the actual baro pressure...in other words to overide?