tkuss
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
Right now I have an 06 Apex with 7000 miles, has been extremely reliable and very fun to drive, I love the sled. I am looking to get a new sled in about two years (when my YES warranty runs out). As of now I am thinking it will a Nytro XTX or Renegade E-tech. I am leaning toward the XTX, but the XP E-tech is so impressive. When first got my 4-stroke I swore I would never be going back to a 2-stroke. But the thought of getting 20 miles per gallon and I would be using so little oil that just adding oil will cost less than bringing a sled to the dealer to have it oil changed. I don't care to much about weight, but on top of everything the XP is alot lighter. Now granted the XTX has its list of good things about it as well, such as way more power and reliability. So what do you guys think? Will the E-tech prove to actually get 20mpg riding hard and will it be able to last 10,000 miles with out any problems to the motor. Or am I the only one somewhat impressed by it.
Great question tkuss,
I can only speak from experience.
This mileage is on the original factory motor. The motor has been opened up for a valve train inspection only. There a 4 valves per cylinder for a total of 12. Only 3 valves needed to be shimmed. Cam lobes, timing chain and everything else was clean and in superb condition. I change oil every 2000 miles.
I finished this season riding 14,633 miles and not even a hick-up from the engine. Using half choke (carbureted motor) the Genesis 120 started at minus -32 degrees F, below zero.
In addition, my brothers ATTAK turned 10,000 miles yesterday as well.
Just my 2 cents...Yamaha Motors are a sure thing!
All the best in finding what suits your riding needs!
I can only speak from experience.
This mileage is on the original factory motor. The motor has been opened up for a valve train inspection only. There a 4 valves per cylinder for a total of 12. Only 3 valves needed to be shimmed. Cam lobes, timing chain and everything else was clean and in superb condition. I change oil every 2000 miles.
I finished this season riding 14,633 miles and not even a hick-up from the engine. Using half choke (carbureted motor) the Genesis 120 started at minus -32 degrees F, below zero.
In addition, my brothers ATTAK turned 10,000 miles yesterday as well.
Just my 2 cents...Yamaha Motors are a sure thing!
All the best in finding what suits your riding needs!
tkuss
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
Hondo I defiantly agree. Over the course of the 7000 miles I have put on, my motor has not once sputtered or hiccuped. It is truly amazing. My 150 FI engine is just has happy going 10 mph all day verse 80 mph all day. The E-Tech is also suppose to run very smooth, most likely the smoothest two stroke every built.
Based on my experience with 2 strokes, and despite all the Evinrude technology, I would never go back to a 2 stroke.
I have found what works for me.
Yamaha has stayed the course with 4 stroke technology and are light years ahead of any other competitor with a 4 stroke motor.
Not bashing, just honest discussion:
BRP seems to be refining it's 2 stroke technology while introducing a new 3 cylinder, 4 stroke motor.
Time will only tell us which way market share will lead BRP. I have my own suspicions.
IMO, You pose a great discussion question!
I have found what works for me.
Yamaha has stayed the course with 4 stroke technology and are light years ahead of any other competitor with a 4 stroke motor.
Not bashing, just honest discussion:
BRP seems to be refining it's 2 stroke technology while introducing a new 3 cylinder, 4 stroke motor.
Time will only tell us which way market share will lead BRP. I have my own suspicions.
IMO, You pose a great discussion question!
tkuss
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
Thanks for the feedback I much appreciate it.
Bpatch50
Expert
E-tec
Have you ridden one of these E-tecs yet? Despite all the hype over on DooTalk, they lack performance. The Doo 600ho has more impressive acceleration by quite a bit. Yes, they are quite a bit lighter, and most likely will get 20+ MPG.
Have you ridden one of these E-tecs yet? Despite all the hype over on DooTalk, they lack performance. The Doo 600ho has more impressive acceleration by quite a bit. Yes, they are quite a bit lighter, and most likely will get 20+ MPG.
tkuss
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
No I have not drove an E-tech, have you? If so what did you think of it. I realize it will not be close to a nytro engine performance wise. I have driven a nytro and wow, that thing has tons of torque, it was fun to drive. As far as I know the E-tech has 120 horsepower and feels like a normal two stroke 600. I would also like to say, I am not trying to start a big bash fest here on me or on ski-doo. Like I said before I own several Yamahas and love them. I am just trying to generate some discussion, so I can see some people honest opinions on the sleds.
06RSRAGE
Expert
I can't see any reason ever to go back to a 2s I have 3 seasons on the Rage with No problems. Ya there's the oil changes but I haven't had to change the plugs or the belt since I got it... My old 2s it was at least a once a year thing. I guess the thing I like is I no longer have to worry about getting home.
(I posted this somewhere else here) I am now being asked, by some of my 2s friends, if I could bring up the rear because they don't want to left on the trail while they are changing plugs.. (True story) (Thats how I know the new ones still stink) I haven't ridden any 2s since I got my Rage (I don't want to they smell) but I suppose there might be someone that needs a very light weight sled (mountains or Super deep powder) But I don't.
I also posted somewhere here that one of the guys I was riding with had one of the "new" sled (brand name withheld) he thought he had the best and the fastest, He may have had the best (in his mind) but he did not have the fastest.
I also just reread a Mag review and they showed that while the new 2s mpg has improved they couldn't beat the Yamaha 4s.
PS: buy what you want we'll wait for you while your changing plugs
(I posted this somewhere else here) I am now being asked, by some of my 2s friends, if I could bring up the rear because they don't want to left on the trail while they are changing plugs.. (True story) (Thats how I know the new ones still stink) I haven't ridden any 2s since I got my Rage (I don't want to they smell) but I suppose there might be someone that needs a very light weight sled (mountains or Super deep powder) But I don't.
I also posted somewhere here that one of the guys I was riding with had one of the "new" sled (brand name withheld) he thought he had the best and the fastest, He may have had the best (in his mind) but he did not have the fastest.
I also just reread a Mag review and they showed that while the new 2s mpg has improved they couldn't beat the Yamaha 4s.
PS: buy what you want we'll wait for you while your changing plugs
tkuss
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
My main riding partner who is also my dad drives a phazer so I have been away from the two strokes for quite some time, so I am probably forgetting some of the pains of owning a 2 stroke as compared to a 4 stroke. Last year on the first ride of our phazer. We rode to a popular scenic point and viewed it then came back to leave. While we were putting on our gear. A guy with an older REV started his engine and it kind of popped and ran real crappy and then died out. He then got real serious and said "I think I got to change my plugs." It was a very funny moment especially just considering we just had got the phazer so it made us like our buy of a four stroke even better. I am not comparing four strokes to regular two strokes. I am comparing it to the E-techs, which have been claimed by many magazines to the most 4stroke like two stroke, in terms of running quality and ease of maintence. Also with the E-techs the plugs are warrantied for 3 years or 6600 miles. So fouling plugs may be a problem, but most likely will not be.
06RSRAGE
Expert
Lets Hope its not an issue.
Dano
TY 4 Stroke Master
Although doo makes nice stuff, I wouldn’t pull the trigger on an Etech or 1200 till they have at least 1 year on the snow to see real life issues. I’ve already heard lean problems with the etech where it goes into limp mode easy to protect itself from detonation. After seeing the XP hype last season, I wouldn’t take all this doo marketing hype too seriously at this point.
The Nytro in on its second year out and has a few quirks ironed out. That would be my sled of choice with the larger aftermarket fuel tank of course.
Dan
The Nytro in on its second year out and has a few quirks ironed out. That would be my sled of choice with the larger aftermarket fuel tank of course.
Dan
Dano
TY 4 Stroke Master
tkuss said:
Have to say the Rev is easy to work on, but the XPs are terrible to work on. Just working on the clutching alone is enouph to make you want to throw it in the blue bin.
Dan
Safety Sean
Extreme
A short time ago I was riding in a group of 8 and we did a 200km back coutry run. There was a variety of displacement sizes and levels of riding skills so it was a fairly moderate pace for the day. When it came time to fuel up my buddy on his 08 XP 600SDI Renegade burned a couple of litres less than I did on my 08 RS Venture GT. I have to say that I was surprised and mighty impressed with this - good for Doo with this mileage. Now his machine has a lot less displacement and weighs half as much plus he weighs half as much as I do but I was really surprised at how well his machine did. Oh yea, another buddy of mine was riding with a group that included a Doo dealer on an e-tech...30 km from the trucks the engine mysteriously seized. My buddy was told afterwards that it had nothing to do with oil delivery or consumption but he ain't buying it.
Tork
TY 4 Stroke God
I think Doo is hedging their bets 2 ways.
1. If the e-tec DI is the ultimate, then why offer a 4 stroke 1200?
2. The DI 600 in theory should have the power (or close to) the 600 HO
but it doesn't! So why did they detune it? Might be they are concerned with reliability.
Time will tell the whole truthful story! An etec or 1200 4S with 36K miles like Hondo's odometer shows,....well that would really be something!!
1. If the e-tec DI is the ultimate, then why offer a 4 stroke 1200?
2. The DI 600 in theory should have the power (or close to) the 600 HO
but it doesn't! So why did they detune it? Might be they are concerned with reliability.
Time will tell the whole truthful story! An etec or 1200 4S with 36K miles like Hondo's odometer shows,....well that would really be something!!
tkuss
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
I won't pretend to know alot about the doo two strokes, but over the course of the winter I do alot of snowmobile information searching. And it appears that a quite a few people just get bad SDI's. They experince alot of electronic problems, and then even some will blow up. My thoughts are this. Doo is taking a motor that is very popular, but not 100% reliable. They are then going to lean it out big time with Less fuel and way less oil consumption. My thoughts are there will be quite a few that blow up. And also quite a few will go into a "limb mode" (like stated above) or have electronic issues.
