YAMAHA - EASY WAY OUT

[yamajammer76]

Yup, I feel the same...beginning of the end to an all Yamaha sled, well I mean an all Japanese built sled anyways. All the talks seem to be focusing on is building new engines, likely in Japan, but not chassis...all talk about moving into North America.

I remember reading on Chris Reid's sled blog and he had previously mentioned that Yamaha needed to simplify it's snowmobile line by using one chassis (ahem...AC ProCross), and modifying them to accommodate several engines and classes of sledding. As this move happens, more sleds will be built in Arctic Cat's factory. It's possible that Yamaha will remain separate from Arctic Cat and build their own factory eventually, but you will say goodbye to the QDR that Yamaha has been reknown for.

Let's just hope that Yamaha is actually doing some R&D and is actually developing their own chassis and release it for their 50th Anniversary for the 2018 model year...until then, I think all we are going to see a ProCross, er Viper chassis modified for trail, mountain, cross country and touring.

Right after Yamaha did it's last major product refresh from '06-'08 (Apex, Phazer, Nytro) the recession hit and I believe the Power Products group did have most of their funding pulled. Since then we have only seen engineering improvements and the Apex/Vector did get a minor update and minor facelift. I honestly believe they are putting resources back into the group, however I think you are right when you say their business model as far as snowmobiles goes will likely change.

I think there are a few possibilities going forward. I know Chris Reid has stated in the past that there would be big advantages to moving snowmobile production from Japan to their Newnan, Georgia plant. It would help bring the plant to full production and place the sleds a lot closer to the large North American market and it's suppliers. The problem with this is it takes time to re-tool and train. If a decision like that was made recently then it might take 2 years or more to see a product rolling off the line.

Another possibility is that they will re-design the Apex/Vector/Venture line and keep production of that chassis in-house in Japan and the lower content and value models will become AC re-badges with Yamaha engines. This is an "automaker" type strategy and it can work just fine as long as you keep a strong top-line to keep people walking through the door.

The good news is that I do believe YMC still wants to be a player in the snowmobile market, but how they do that in the future remains to be seen. The Viper will give the snowmobile division a shot in the arm for a year or two, but it is not a long term solution to carry the entire line. Like I said selling a couple of re-badged models in a full line is fine, but if it is all your line becomes then your pretty much finished.

 

[00-NUKE]

Where do I start?????
I went to the fist showing in Minneapolis last night for the 2014 Yamaha's and have NEVER been so disappointed in a Manufacturer. I talked with the Yamaha rep for about 30 minutes and you could tell that he was trying desperately to retain peoples belief in Yamaha's. He stated that the Viper chassis was almost nothing like the AC 1100 chassis. He had also stated that there are members of Yammaha working up in Thief River Falls and that AC is having a tough time maintaining Yamaha's "stringent" assembly criteria.

IMO: I't's all a load of hoo-ha. After going through the Viper from nose to tail, I found the following........
1. Cat Ski's
2. Cat Plastics
3. Cat Skid
4. Cat Track
5. Cat Chassis
6. Cat Spindles
7. Cat Display
8. Yamaha Clutching
9. Yamaha Yamaha Gears
10. Yamaha Windshield
11. Yamaha Engine

I guess I might have felt even a little better if Yamaha would have added some of their own looks to this sled or at least found a way to keep the tip in the rail of the XTX. No wonder they were able to keep in under the radar for so long. All they had to do was leave th dang thing green until it's release. What a JOKE! My last works were "the proof is in the pudding" as I pointed at the ski with a blue ski loop and it had "Arctic Cat" molded in the plastic.

Well said !! Its a Cat with a Yam engine..WOW....

Good, because I've been wanting a Yamaha that handles and rides like a Cat since I bought my 04 Warrior...now it's here and I'm all over it, you guys keep crying about how Yamaha is pulling the wool over your eyes and I'll ride a Viper next year. Most of us asked for it and now we have it so quit bitching.

Just to clarify, I don’t have any issues with the Viper. I was just stating the lack of effort that was applied on Yamaha’s part. I’m sure the Viper will be a fun machine once all of the bugs are worked out.

I came back into Yamaha snowmobiles when the 2008 lineup was released. How does a manufacturer release a lineup like the one in 2008, then just lay down and go to sleep afterwards. Even their sled updates were weak. Nytro example: Skis, Slides, 1.75 track…… REALLY??? These are not updates, they’re accessories. I understand that snowmobiles are not their bread and butter, but that shouldn’t matter. Snowmobiling is a heritage.

Bombardier’s income from snowmobile sales is a blip on the radar compared to their Aerospace and Engine products, yet they still bring value added updates and new products to the sport almost every year. Yamaha has the capabilities to do the same, but where are they?????? You can call it bitching or bashing if you want. I’m just saying what many are thinking.

 

[yamajammer76]

Where do I start?????
I went to the fist showing in Minneapolis last night for the 2014 Yamaha's and have NEVER been so disappointed in a Manufacturer. I talked with the Yamaha rep for about 30 minutes and you could tell that he was trying desperately to retain peoples belief in Yamaha's. He stated that the Viper chassis was almost nothing like the AC 1100 chassis. He had also stated that there are members of Yammaha working up in Thief River Falls and that AC is having a tough time maintaining Yamaha's "stringent" assembly criteria.

IMO: I't's all a load of hoo-ha. After going through the Viper from nose to tail, I found the following........
1. Cat Ski's
2. Cat Plastics
3. Cat Skid
4. Cat Track
5. Cat Chassis
6. Cat Spindles
7. Cat Display
8. Yamaha Clutching
9. Yamaha Yamaha Gears
10. Yamaha Windshield
11. Yamaha Engine

I guess I might have felt even a little better if Yamaha would have added some of their own looks to this sled or at least found a way to keep the tip in the rail of the XTX. No wonder they were able to keep in under the radar for so long. All they had to do was leave th dang thing green until it's release. What a JOKE! My last works were "the proof is in the pudding" as I pointed at the ski with a blue ski loop and it had "Arctic Cat" molded in the plastic.

Well said !! Its a Cat with a Yam engine..WOW....

Good, because I've been wanting a Yamaha that handles and rides like a Cat since I bought my 04 Warrior...now it's here and I'm all over it, you guys keep crying about how Yamaha is pulling the wool over your eyes and I'll ride a Viper next year. Most of us asked for it and now we have it so quit bitching.

Just to clarify, I don’t have any issues with the Viper. I was just stating the lack of effort that was applied on Yamaha’s part. I’m sure the Viper will be a fun machine once all of the bugs are worked out.

I came back into Yamaha snowmobiles when the 2008 lineup was released. How does a manufacturer release a lineup like the one in 2008, then just lay down and go to sleep afterwards. Even their sled updates were weak. Nytro example: Skis, Slides, 1.75 track…… REALLY??? These are not updates, they’re accessories. I understand that snowmobiles are not their bread and butter, but that shouldn’t matter. Snowmobiling is a heritage.

Bombardier’s income from snowmobile sales is a blip on the radar compared to their Aerospace and Engine products, yet they still bring value added updates to the sport almost every year. Yamaha has the capabilities to do the same, but where are they?????? You can call it bitching or bashing if you want. I’m just saying what many are thinking.

Just a couple of things.. First of all Bombardier does not own the recreational products group anymore. The group was split off into BRP about a decade ago. Bain Capital (Mitt Romney's claim to fame) is the majority owner.

Second, I agree I would have liked to see a more unique product even if it is built by Arctic Cat using the ProCross chassis. Unique plastic panels, unique styling, unique shock packages, etc. would have made this look and feel like a unique snowmobile without a huge engineering expense. If Yamaha plans to use Cat to build additional sleds in the future then their Wisconsin headquarters needs to be designing unique products even if they are based on the ProCross chassis. Now of course this might all be a temporary solution and maybe Arctic Cat would not even agree to allowing Yamaha to put a unique spin on their chassis. Why? Well if Yamaha made something that looked better or performed better then the Cat using Cat's chassis where do you think the sales are going to end up going?

I'm still holding out hope that Yamaha will introduce a new sled built by them in the near future. If they really are serious about moving development and production to a North American Yamaha plant then the Viper makes sense as an interim product.

 

[Yammerhead]

I think Yam moving production would be a big positive. Designing, testing and manufacturing sleds on the other side of the world from the primary market does not make sense. I also feel that the Japanese are very inflexible in their ways about how things need to be done. AC, Polaris and BRP have always been quicker to innovate and change than Yamaha, for better or worse. Has there been big problems with moving quad production to the US? Just from a NAFTA perspective, manufacturing sleds in North America is better for us in Canada.

What remains to be seen is if Yamaha actually does move production to North America or do they expand on the Arctic Cat experiment.

 

[yamajammer76]

I think Yam moving production would be a big positive. Designing, testing and manufacturing sleds on the other side of the world from the primary market does not make sense. I also feel that the Japanese are very inflexible in their ways about how things need to be done. AC, Polaris and BRP have always been quicker to innovate and change than Yamaha, for better or worse. Has there been big problems with moving quad production to the US? Just from a NAFTA perspective, manufacturing sleds in North America is better for us in Canada.

What remains to be seen is if Yamaha actually does move production to North America or do they expand on the Arctic Cat experiment.

Chris Reid has talked about the advantages to moving snowmobile production to their ATV plant in GA, but I have no idea if they are actually proceeding with that idea. If the bulk of engineering is being moved to Wisconsin then North American production of the product makes sense. I would imagine that the snowmobile division would be much more profitable although there is something about that Made in Japan quality I would miss.