Yamaha Engine in Textron Side by Side

[stevewithOCD]

I was in Cabelas today & they sell Side by Sides by Tracker as in Tracker Boats.
The 1000 is a Yamaha motor
800's are Arctic Cat
The 570, 700 & 1000 motors are Textron made in USA
90, 300 & 500's are Kymco

So Textron uses Kymco, Cat, Yamaha & their own motors, built by Cat for Textron built for Tracker sold by Cabelas.

It's like getting a dog from an animal shelter. 8 breeds in 1
Don't get me wrong, those are usually great dogs........just sayin'

 

[Deeppow16]

That's a sharp looking machine. My uncle bought a tracker side by side and said its great. He has the one that looks more like a ranger then the sport model and I think its an 800. I looked it over pretty good when he picked it up and it looks like a solid product.

 

[rtx moose]

i have a friend who works for textron,he said they begged for the turbo and yammie said no way to the application because it would be a complete redesign!!!

 

[biffdotorg]

This is not new news. The Wildcat XX has been made a number of years already. The Tracker version is identical other than plastics/graphics.

You should hear the guys crying on the Wildcat forum that Textron signed an OEM agreement with Tracker to produce these. I think it's good business. Polaris makes UTV's for John Deere, it's pretty common.

The Wildcat XX/Tracker have turbo options, but not from Yamaha. Similar options that guys here have used for Vipers over the years. AC, prior to Textron sourced almost all motors from Kymco/Suzuki/Yamaha. And it's only been up until the last few years that the CTEC2 600 and 800 are produced in AC's engine plant in St Cloud. Prior to that, they were all outsourced.

Keep this in mind, as long as Textron doesn't replace the 998 engine in the Wildcat XX/Tracker, the engine sourcing agreement with Yamaha is alive and well. Rumors are strong that a Textron/Weber based engine would be the logical next step.

Here is the sand in the ointment. Speed SXS, lead by Robbie Gordon, has been a boutique builder of Wildcats for racing. They have an agreement with AC/Textron and have been producing high performance turbo'd and supercharged Wildcat XX's since before AC released them. They now are producing a 4 seat version that is nearly identical (to the untrained eye) to the AC prototype. And AC/Textron has yet to release the four seater.

This is not news either. The news is that the boosted engine is not the Yamaha 998. Speed went back to the Suzuki Z1 engine, that AC used in the 9000 series prior to the Yamaha 998. This is either stubborness by Speed, or an indication of a potential engine agreement with Zuke once again. Ac dropped Suzuki for a reason, and I think many AC faithful love the Yamaha, but there are just as many or more that loved that Zuke Z1 engine. The term bulletproof and ability to take boost was used almost as much as Yamaha blue bleeders rant about.

Good business sense for Textron makes me think they would start sourcing engines from one of their own subsidiaries like Weber. Or re-kindle an engine sourcing relationship from an engine builder that is not a competitor (Suzuki)

And one last fly in this ointment, my local AC dealer, just took on Suzuki as another line of business for them. What does that tell you if you read into it just a little? Hmmm. I won't claim to know anything in this business, but those things add up to a very similar conclusion.

Discuss..... I will put on some popcorn

 

[cannondale27]

Speedwerks is developing and racing the Yamaha powered xx. Turbo and NA. If others want to race a old Zuk twin may the best one win. I already know what the result will be.

 

[cannondale27]

Also the old twin engine production was in house in the end. With only parts supplied by zuk.

 

[biffdotorg]

Speedwerks is developing and racing the Yamaha powered xx. Turbo and NA. If others want to race a old Zuk twin may the best one win. I already know what the result will be.

I hear ya and I love their work. Alex Fortune and the Houles have been a great source of information and upgrades.

The difference here is Speed's affiliation with AC prior to production. In other words, they were developing suspension and go-fast parts for the old Wildcat 1000 prior to production. And they were even more involved with the Wildcat XX for years before production. And in fact raced that prototype in open classes prior to production. That's not to say Speedwerx was not involved in pre-production testing, as I know the guys were privy to many a development before any of us end users.

The biggest one that caught folks off guard was the Wildcat with an 800cc 2-stroke that Speedwerx put out. The rumor mill had folks wondering if that was a potential direction. Of course we all realized it was just a pet project that threw off the masses as to the Yamaha powered Wildcat in development.

What I am pointing out is a boutique mfg like Speed SXS putting so much investment in multiple Z1 based machines. Not just a one-off project machine. I'm talking full production of $40-$55k racing and dune monsters with an engine that many AC faithful had written off.

Going back to Suzuki would allow Textron to source from a non-competitor. It's a topic of discussion is all. But I had not put 2 and 2 together until I saw all the Suzuki bikes and ATV's on the showroom floor of my local AC dealer. Maybe he's just diversifying. Or maybe he was expecting Textron to pull his AC dealership agreement due to low volume and he was hedging. I'm sure I am reading into this too far.

PS: Have you seen a sport SXS from Suzuki? And would it blow your mind if one was released in a Wildcat XX chassis with their engine? Honda and Kawi jumped in the game, why not Zuke. (they need a proven chassis)

Enjoy!

 

[rtx moose]

So i see 2 stroke turbos are a big deal now...will we start seeing them in sleds

 

[biffdotorg]

Start? Pretty much all the mountain guys have been boosting 2-strokes for years. They are trying to beat the ill effects of elevation with boost.

Ask how well the Polaris 850 takes boost from Burandt, or how well the Doo's perform with a Silber. Lots of boosted 2 strokes out there. But the OEM's know the reliability trade off of selling one on the showroom floor may never happen. The dealers will sell you one, and even help install it, but a tail light warranty may be all you get.

 

[rtx moose]

my point being is the OEM'S must think they are reliable if there putting them in a warmer enviroment

 

[ClutchMaster]

This is not new news. The Wildcat XX has been made a number of years already. The Tracker version is identical other than plastics/graphics.

You should hear the guys crying on the Wildcat forum that Textron signed an OEM agreement with Tracker to produce these. I think it's good business. Polaris makes UTV's for John Deere, it's pretty common.

The Wildcat XX/Tracker have turbo options, but not from Yamaha. Similar options that guys here have used for Vipers over the years. AC, prior to Textron sourced almost all motors from Kymco/Suzuki/Yamaha. And it's only been up until the last few years that the CTEC2 600 and 800 are produced in AC's engine plant in St Cloud. Prior to that, they were all outsourced.

Keep this in mind, as long as Textron doesn't replace the 998 engine in the Wildcat XX/Tracker, the engine sourcing agreement with Yamaha is alive and well. Rumors are strong that a Textron/Weber based engine would be the logical next step.

Here is the sand in the ointment. Speed SXS, lead by Robbie Gordon, has been a boutique builder of Wildcats for racing. They have an agreement with AC/Textron and have been producing high performance turbo'd and supercharged Wildcat XX's since before AC released them. They now are producing a 4 seat version that is nearly identical (to the untrained eye) to the AC prototype. And AC/Textron has yet to release the four seater.

This is not news either. The news is that the boosted engine is not the Yamaha 998. Speed went back to the Suzuki Z1 engine, that AC used in the 9000 series prior to the Yamaha 998. This is either stubborness by Speed, or an indication of a potential engine agreement with Zuke once again. Ac dropped Suzuki for a reason, and I think many AC faithful love the Yamaha, but there are just as many or more that loved that Zuke Z1 engine. The term bulletproof and ability to take boost was used almost as much as Yamaha blue bleeders rant about.

Good business sense for Textron makes me think they would start sourcing engines from one of their own subsidiaries like Weber. Or re-kindle an engine sourcing relationship from an engine builder that is not a competitor (Suzuki)

And one last fly in this ointment, my local AC dealer, just took on Suzuki as another line of business for them. What does that tell you if you read into it just a little? Hmmm. I won't claim to know anything in this business, but those things add up to a very similar conclusion.

Discuss..... I will put on some popcorn

Dam B-Dog,
Your a wealth of knowledge! Thanks for this!
Keep it coming

 

[biffdotorg]

my point being is the OEM'S must think they are reliable if there putting them in a warmer enviroment

What's funny, is after more reading on the Wildcat forum about guys that went to Glamis recently, Robbie Gordon has been heavily modifying the Z1 engine for this purpose. Like adding additional cooling. Even though the sled guys boosted them well past 300hp in sled form. And the Z1 was a popular option for the wildcat guys for an engine swap. Where Polaris guys really like the Apex engine for stable boost.

So yes, it was reliable in the sleds, but I guess they added quite a bit of cooling for it to be reliable in the sand and other environments it will encounter. Keeping in mind, the 77" wide SXS's they will be producing will not be welcome in the Eastern States or midwest, as they are too wide to legally ride most trails. They truly building purpose built machines. For that reason we don't see as many CanAm X3 XRS in MN, as they are legally too wide.

These units will be pushing 225hp with a "hellcat" type key to take it over 300hp, which even Romono from Speed says nobody needs. Need doesn't usually come into these equations.

I posted this on my sled group on facebook and called out my local Cat dealer. He said he took on Suzuki dirt products for their reliability and full line of products, including bikes. I truly think it is 3-fold.

AC's snowbike was shot down before it was every produced. They used a chinese bike MFG for that portion and a camoplast (Camso) skid/track. There could be a chance the AC may make another go at it, and possibly use a Zuke bike. They have a new patent filing floating around for a snow bike. They truly want to produce the complete bike, and not just a kit, as most states cannot allow "adapted" vehicles on snowmobile trails. Only factory produced snowmobiles with track/skis are allowed.

And point two may have been the potential Suzuki partnership, which I have dreamed up here. And thirdly, he may have been hedging his bets wondering if AC was going to pull his dealership due to low volume. He moves sleds, but not when we are as close as we are to Country Cat (probably the largest cat clearning house in the nation)
It's all just a good discussion about what could be, but probably not.

And then there is the Tucker Hibbert rumor on Yamaha. HA!!

Someone on the Wildcat forum said AC needed a star to promote their line. Like Ken Block, Levi, Burandt, Turcotte etc. How about Travis Pastrana. Then someone said, nobody could nail down Pastrana for that. But alas, Travis strongly advocates Suburu for his rally driving. And he raced Suzuki for years. I could see him promoting a Suzuki powered Sport SXS in a Wildcat chassis.

 

[rtx moose]

yea thank god snow bikes and wheeler tracks are illegal in minnesota, they rut the hell out of a trail and make them very unsafe to ride a sled on

 

[stevewithOCD]

Well i was just stopping in Cabelas to grab some Doe Pee & i saw what looked like my Sidewinder motor in a Bass Boat branded 4-wheeler.
Then i got BIFFED!
I feel like Marty McFly's dad!
There was whole lot of info in those BIFFologues. And A LOT makes sense.
Could Textron be wooing Susuki? Suzuki takes a lot more chances then Yamaha & has 2-strokes that would make AC happy as well.

The BIFF has stirred the pot!

 

[cannondale27]

Why would Textron go with Suzuki when they already ditched Cat once already? Once Cat made their own 2strokes the 4 stroke volume wasnt enough for Suzuki to sell to them anymore. You guys do realize that if Cat were to go with Suzuki it could very well be the end of Yamaha powered snowmobiles?