Your definition of Railing in the corners

[apltx08]

Railing for me means...2 skis stay PLANTED on the snow at a MODERATE speed with FULL control of my sled, I leed 90% of the time and its nice to have a sled handle and get out of the way of some JERK cutting corners! Its a FAST & dangerous sport and you MUST be alert at all times or else...

 

[BADSLED]

Trust me its not you. With the high center of gravity and heavy motors of new yamaha sleds theres only so much you can do.Ever since two of my riding buddies bought doo's( 07 600 ho, and 09 tnt) Ive been trying to get my apex to corner like them, but no such luck.When you do get the yamaha to turn in corners, the tradeoff is inside ski lift.NO ski lift equals push in corners.There's no happy medium.I totally agree with your definition of great handling,thats why i think its funny when apex or nytro owners claim their sleds outhandle anything out there.Yes you can keep up with other sleds through the woods but you'll have to work a lot harder at it to get the same speed.I love my apex but by the true definition of great handling i'll admit its not a the top of the sled world.

Your apex should be able to out corner the doo's without any issues it's all in the setup! I ride with all of those sleds and have yet to have one be able to keep up. If you have front Piggyback shocks with compression dial set to 3 from hardest my Apex Gt would hands down outperform all of the doo's. As a matter of fact the heavier front is an advantage and I am not a featherweight etither. When you get into loose snow conditions the weight is disadvantage.

 

[rancidjo]

Trust me its not you. With the high center of gravity and heavy motors of new yamaha sleds theres only so much you can do.Ever since two of my riding buddies bought doo's( 07 600 ho, and 09 tnt) Ive been trying to get my apex to corner like them, but no such luck.When you do get the yamaha to turn in corners, the tradeoff is inside ski lift.NO ski lift equals push in corners.There's no happy medium.I totally agree with your definition of great handling,thats why i think its funny when apex or nytro owners claim their sleds outhandle anything out there.Yes you can keep up with other sleds through the woods but you'll have to work a lot harder at it to get the same speed.I love my apex but by the true definition of great handling i'll admit its not a the top of the sled world.

agree 100%

 

[SledFreak]

If someone says their sled rails in the corners that is subjective. I guess I was spoiled back in the old days of riding my SX, vipers and SRX's ... now those things railed. My definition of rails: stays flat with no inside ski lift and goes where you point it.
The reason for this post is I wonder if I am just expecting to much out of my XTX with it's weight and not so low center of gravity. I have the hygear triple rate springs, 6.9 pilots with 6" shapers in the middle and stock 4" on the outside, weight transfer set to minimum, center shock preload at minimum (10mm), and limiter strap stock hole.
As long as I ride at a moderate pace 40-45 MPH it's great very minimal inside ski lift and for the most part goes where I point it (depends on snow/trail conditions). At night when I ride a bit slower and can use the whole trail and hit the apex of the corner it rails.
I feel that the sled is as good as it's going to get. Is there anyone out there with an XTX that has no inside ski lift when riding hard?

I think your issues on railing is this.. When you try come out of the corner and get on the throttle, the skis should stay planted and they don't, and the sled will start to highside which means you can't go as fast as you want exiting the corner... Having said this... Sleds today with the amount of suspension, and weight transfer, it becomes very hard to dial in your sled to get it to rail. You really have to lower the suspension down to get them them to turn, unless you are big guy and can man handle the sled. Dialing alot of the weight transfer out of the sled to keep it fully coupled is the key, but as always, a trade off in ride and acceleration. I don't think you will find any sled these days that handle like the old days...

 

[ahicks]

<<<I think your issues on railing is this.. When you try come out of the corner and get on the throttle, the skis should stay planted and they don't, and the sled will start to highside which means you can't go as fast as you want exiting the corner... Having said this... Sleds today with the amount of suspension, and weight transfer, it becomes very hard to dial in your sled to get it to rail. You really have to lower the suspension down to get them them to turn, unless you are big guy and can man handle the sled. Dialing alot of the weight transfer out of the sled to keep it fully coupled is the key, but as always, a trade off in ride and acceleration. I don't think you will find any sled these days that handle like the old days...>>>

Agree completely. The big guys are still at an advantage on the big heavy sleds in the woods. They always have been. Regarding the coupling, I don't think there are many that really fully understand this/what's going on with it. This is one of the big reasons so many guys like the Poo 600 HO's with the standard (PS5) suspension. They run a suspension setup relying heavily on coupling - and set up properly, they CAN rail - and still do really well in the stutters and smaller stuff up to about 12 - 18". FWIW

 

[rhoag]

I'm about 230 in riding gear and work out so I can muscle around a sled. I also do track days and ride the mountains on my R1 or R6 in the summer. So I stay in shape.
I have lowered the front end with the triple rates and have the weight transfer set to minimum. There are 2 things left to do. Lower the front end another 1/2 inch by removing one of the spacers from the triple rates and change the hole the swaybar is in. I could also widen the ski stance by putting both spacers on the inside of the ski but, then it would be very hard to get two sleds with 6.9 pilots on a 101" trailer that the cover closes on the inside of the rails. The sled is close ...it does handle well below 40 MPH and if you can use the whole trail like at night or non-blind corners.

 

[apltx08]

I'm about 230 in riding gear and work out so I can muscle around a sled. I have lowered the front end with the triple rates and have the weight transfer set to minimum. There are 2 things left to do. Lower the front end another 1/2 inch by removing one of the spacers from the triple rates and change the hole the swaybar is in.

I'm the same riding weight as you and have lowerd my front end and has really improved handling, I got them SHIMMED or shorten the travel by 5/8"...check out the link.
http://www.ty4stroke.com/viewtopic.php? ... highlight=

 

[99SRX700]

When I bought my '05 RX-1 I was coming from an SRX. I loved my SRX because I mostly rode in northern VT due to the fact that a close friend lived there right on the trail. Out where we were, the trails were windy and mostly through open fields where you could see far ahead of you through the corners. Running wide open on the straights and hitting the corners as hard as the sled would let you was the norm for us. We set our sleds up for these conditions cause we encountered them often and to us this is where the SRX's shined. It was smooth, open, and fast.

When I got my '05 I was mostly looking forward to a more rounded machine that would handle the bumps and be more of a mercedes than a ferrari. What amazed me is that the RX-1 felt much more tippy than the SRX, but it cut deeper and seemed to hold the trail better. No matter how I set up my SRX, while it would never lift the inner ski, it would slide long before the RX-1 would tip. In all reality I could ride faster on the RX-1. Sure I had some inner ski lift and had to work the machine a little more, but due to the fact that the RX-1 would carve long beyond where the SRX would start to slide, in the end I was suprisingly faster and actually lost my buddy through the corners. In the past when I had my SRX I could never loose him and he was always on my heals (we had the same machines set up the same way).

I think that there is a difference between perception and reality when it comes to handling. The SRX feels like a great handling machine because if set up right it always keeps those skis planted. But the reality is it has a tendancy to push. Even with the most aggressive carbides and more studs to get that traction, in the end the problem is still there. The skis may be flat, but you have to let off the throttle to stay in the corner. If you don't you will slide.

What I find most interesting is that if I had not been able to make such a pure comparison I never would have realized this because the RX-1 simply does not feel like a good handling machine, and I would be on this post talking about how my RX-1 just doesn't "rail" the corners like my SRX. Feel and actual results can vary big time. Just like when I was working on my clutching someone once told me that a faster "feeling" set up, can in all reality be slower. I think the same applies to handling. To me railing the corners is about getting through them as fast as possible, and has nothing to do with how the sled feels.

 

[sleddingfarmer]

railing the corners to me means going as fast as I can while simply staying on my side of the trail. And I like my inside ski just skimming the top of the snow...that way I know my outside ski has plenty of bite.

 

[snowbeast]

<<<I think your issues on railing is this.. When you try come out of the corner and get on the throttle, the skis should stay planted and they don't, and the sled will start to highside which means you can't go as fast as you want exiting the corner... Having said this... Sleds today with the amount of suspension, and weight transfer, it becomes very hard to dial in your sled to get it to rail. You really have to lower the suspension down to get them them to turn, unless you are big guy and can man handle the sled. Dialing alot of the weight transfer out of the sled to keep it fully coupled is the key, but as always, a trade off in ride and acceleration. I don't think you will find any sled these days that handle like the old days...>>>

Agree completely. The big guys are still at an advantage on the big heavy sleds in the woods. They always have been. Regarding the coupling, I don't think there are many that really fully understand this/what's going on with it. This is one of the big reasons so many guys like the Poo 600 HO's with the standard (PS5) suspension. They run a suspension setup relying heavily on coupling - and set up properly, they CAN rail - and still do really well in the stutters and smaller stuff up to about 12 - 18". FWIW

Freak you are correct,as you remove transfer,your gt or any apex/attack with the rod,will let the rear slid around enough to make the front end hook hard enough to make it feel like it rails,but the trade off is the rough ride you get when you do this,yes it is great on smooth trails,but gets real bad in rough ruts,a combo between valving,springs,and adjustments is key,yes skis can help some and carbides,also studs play alot in how a sled rails around a corner,to much puch from the track,leads to to much push in the front,also large lug tracks ment for off trail dont help in the cornering either,so its always a trade off.

 

[apltx08]

also studs play alot in how a sled rails around a corner,to much push from the track,leads to to much push in the front,also large lug tracks ment for off trail dont help in the cornering either,so its always a trade off.

Exactly! the older sleds only ran 1/2" to 5/8" track lugs with barely any TRACTION! so it made it easy to steer/turn in corners and created a lot less inside ski lift...now a days with our 1.25" tracks some STUDDED for example on a HARD PACKED surface you tend to get a lot more inside ski lift due to the massive amount of TRACTION coming from both front & rear suspension, but on the other hand in a SEMI SOFT/LOOSE snow condition you tend to GLIDE better threw corners and more predictable steering cuz of lesser TRACK traction and even better for a UNSTUDDED track, not as agressive wanting to throw you off your seat when getting into a turn, your rear end tends to slide and your front end taking over control...

As "ahicks" said reducing TRANSFER made a huge improvement in corners for me keeping skis planted in and out of corner under accelaration and I also LOWERED my front end by 1 1/2" +/- by shortening front shock travel by 5/8" and setting my COMPRESSION damping higher and quicker REBOUND on my CLICKERS also made a BIG difference.

 

[cannondale27]

There are guys Ice Oval racing all these sleds so we all know they can rail but how would you feel on a trail at end of the day with a sled like that?Lets see I had over 800mi on Phazer then took SRX out on one easy 100mi ride.I am still feeling pains where I never did in 800mi on Phazer.Wierd stuff like my ankles and knees plus my thumbs from front end hits.When I get on the SRX it feels as though I am being stuffed into a box the riding position is so bad.A good help very well might be to lower your seat hight alot.See who volunteers for that.Not me.

 

[BombaPolaYama]

....I could also widen the ski stance by putting both spacers on the inside of the ski .....quote]
spacers go on the outside of the spindle to widen the stance.

 

[Phatboyc]

Well someone could test lateral G force when doing a circle on different sleds new and old to compare. Just like they test sports cars.