apexgt4life
Expert
Well I ride up at tug hill Ny and the sled handle good but as we all know who ride up thier you still come across the rough trail section and i dont by any means feel i ride hard. Got the revalve and stiffer spring from pioneer and it does have alot of adjustability but once i hit the moguls i crank it up all the way and still bottoms, Not as much but enough. It almost feels like the shock fades and gets softer the more i ride. Any suggestinos to make this thing handle the rough. I honestly dont see the purpose of a groomed trail sled, because if the trails are groomed and flat, wont any thing handle that, I can never ride here in new york and not come across rough trails. I almost want to get a rev because those sleds suposibly handle it, I have never rode one but that all i c and thier must be a reason. maybe i expect to much out of a sled but does anything handle the bumps. I dont see why a rough trail sled like a rev or nytro would handle bad on groomed trail, thier flat trails, yea they suspension stiffer but who cares the trails are groomed, were you ned the suspension is in the bumps. some one talk some sense into me, I love the yamaha and the engine but the weight and poor suspension is getting old.
Honk
TY 4 Stroke Master
Try goin up with the preload, 1 thread at a time, untill you are right on the edge. You should feel the mono workin the whole range, and only once in a while will it bottom. You will get it prefect, just play with it. My Mono is the best I've ever had, but you must be willing to set it up properly, if not, it will not work well, and you'll still complain.Yammys got a lot of adjustment, other don't have so many. Its like its custom made, just for YOU! Good Luck playin with it! Thats the fun part!
apexgt4life
Expert
so adjust the preload by turning the collar, I originally adjusted by seting to the specs for adjusting mono spring in the frequently asked questions,
welterracer
TY 4 Stroke God
How much do you weigh? do you have the correct spring for your weight?
I weigh 205 and have the pioneeer revalve, and it hardly ever bottoms on the trail, you have to ride it very hard to see that..
Ive heard tug hill has the roughest trails on the planet, and from what ive heard, only the light weight ditch bangers can survive up there.. like the REV, XP and Dragons.. and maybe the Nytro
Tightening the spring, is only going to ruin your ride, if you dont have the correct spring.. You need the correct amount of sag in for the suspension to work properly..
I weigh 205 and have the pioneeer revalve, and it hardly ever bottoms on the trail, you have to ride it very hard to see that..
Ive heard tug hill has the roughest trails on the planet, and from what ive heard, only the light weight ditch bangers can survive up there.. like the REV, XP and Dragons.. and maybe the Nytro
Tightening the spring, is only going to ruin your ride, if you dont have the correct spring.. You need the correct amount of sag in for the suspension to work properly..
BigMac
Expert
Your rear spring preload needs to be adjusted. If that spring is too soft, either because it's not adjusted, or your riding weight exceeds the stock spring's capability, you're going to bottom out and no amount of compression damping is going to stop it.
I was bottoming on my all-stock GT on some moguls. I figured that tightening up the preload would make it ride rougher, so I resisted setting the preload. After I finally did set it up, right at 40 mm sit-in, I was amazed at the difference. Plush ride, no bottoming.
I was bottoming on my all-stock GT on some moguls. I figured that tightening up the preload would make it ride rougher, so I resisted setting the preload. After I finally did set it up, right at 40 mm sit-in, I was amazed at the difference. Plush ride, no bottoming.
ReX
TY 4 Stroke God
It is definitely worth both checking the preload and increasing it so the sled sits higher.
Really bottoming control is all in the shock valving. I don't really know what sort of a valve stack Bruce uses, but to really control bottoming it needs to have a hard stop on the 3rd stage like Skidoo uses.
The big problem with this is the monoshock's pivot arms cannot handle the high forces that an aggressively valved shock produces. You'll end up going through both front and rear pivot arms fairly quickly - even if you heavily reinforce them (I'm sure if they were reinforced enough it would hold together reasonably well though). With the right valving it will ride extremely well though.
If you really want big bump capability without broken pivot arms, unfortunately you've got the wrong skid in your sled.
I guess if I was in your shoes I'd talk to Bruce at Pioneer about the valve stack he used. Maybe he didn't go very aggressive on the final compression stage and there is room to go (before breaking pivot arms very quickly). Possibly you can send your shock back to him for another revalve.
Really bottoming control is all in the shock valving. I don't really know what sort of a valve stack Bruce uses, but to really control bottoming it needs to have a hard stop on the 3rd stage like Skidoo uses.
The big problem with this is the monoshock's pivot arms cannot handle the high forces that an aggressively valved shock produces. You'll end up going through both front and rear pivot arms fairly quickly - even if you heavily reinforce them (I'm sure if they were reinforced enough it would hold together reasonably well though). With the right valving it will ride extremely well though.
If you really want big bump capability without broken pivot arms, unfortunately you've got the wrong skid in your sled.
I guess if I was in your shoes I'd talk to Bruce at Pioneer about the valve stack he used. Maybe he didn't go very aggressive on the final compression stage and there is room to go (before breaking pivot arms very quickly). Possibly you can send your shock back to him for another revalve.
apexgt4life
Expert
I weigh about 190 fully suited and i did try to set the sag with the stiffer spring that bruce installed, I got it preaty close but the spring seemed to stiff for my weight, had to leave preload almost all the way out. The thing with tug hill is you can have relativley smooth trails then all of a suden u hit rough fo 10-20 miles and i try and go through it at around 50 and for the most part it does ok but every time i come down into a mogul the suspension compressses and it bottoms, sometimes it just bottoms and other times it hits hard. could some one explain to me why a rough trail sled like a nytro would not be the sled of choice for everyone. The way i figure it if the trails are smoothe any sled will handle it and give a decent ride but when it gets rough u need something that will step up and handle it, were d u guys ride were you have all groomed trails, no matter were i ride i find rough trails.
welterracer
TY 4 Stroke God
Theres your problem right there..
"had to leave preload almost all the way out"
You need more preload, you need more compression dampening and more rebound dampening.. Your shock wont keep up with the spring if it isnt set correctly..
Follow the directions that bruce sends with the rebuild shock.. it tells you that adjusting rebuound on the shock also adjusts the compression and will help eliminate hard bottoms..
With these suspensions and stiffer springs and revalved shocks you do give up some ride comfort for big bump capability... Like REX pointed out yamaha uses a single stack valve sysltem.. it will doi one thing good, but not both..
"had to leave preload almost all the way out"
You need more preload, you need more compression dampening and more rebound dampening.. Your shock wont keep up with the spring if it isnt set correctly..
Follow the directions that bruce sends with the rebuild shock.. it tells you that adjusting rebuound on the shock also adjusts the compression and will help eliminate hard bottoms..
With these suspensions and stiffer springs and revalved shocks you do give up some ride comfort for big bump capability... Like REX pointed out yamaha uses a single stack valve sysltem.. it will doi one thing good, but not both..
LJ 452
TY 4 Stroke God
I know exactly what you are talking about, I had Hygear do the works to my Mono RTX and it is night and day difference. However I will still bottom occasionally. I can dial it out with the remote rese but I know that I will be risking total failure of the front and rear arms so I've set it were most everything will be absorbed without bottoming but the big G-outs wil still bottom it. It's strange, according to (can't think of his name) from Hygear the Mono is a falling rate susp. meaning the resistance to bottoming reduces as you compress it. Now I'm not sure if this is only due to crappy stock valving, or a result of the geometry and mechanical advantage as the susp. compresses, i'm sure someone can answer. Bottom line is wrong susp. for what you want to do. Yes it sucks, just imagine if you bought an "RTX" 
. I think the FX in the standard or RTX would likely be a better fit if you ride Tug. My riding buddy's are starting to get theirs dialed in, it's been a task, but they are really performing well now (both RTX's). The only change they've made is swapping the transfer blocks to cat ones, the rest was just clicker and preload adjustments. I do feel that the floats are valved way to stiff on the FX RTX though, I would change it to Apex RTX valving.
. I think the FX in the standard or RTX would likely be a better fit if you ride Tug. My riding buddy's are starting to get theirs dialed in, it's been a task, but they are really performing well now (both RTX's). The only change they've made is swapping the transfer blocks to cat ones, the rest was just clicker and preload adjustments. I do feel that the floats are valved way to stiff on the FX RTX though, I would change it to Apex RTX valving.apexgt4life
Expert
yea i would of bought an apex rtx or are u talking about the nytro, anyway my dealer sed that the mono was beter that the rtx skid on the apex. the rtx skid has the same problems from what i have heard, Its funny all the posts on here are all leanning towards other parts mostly from doo. I mean come on, we are putting doo pilot skis on because yamaha factory dart. We are putting on doo boggie wheels because yamahas shred. Now i just saw someone talking about putting a doo suspension in thier sled. What is going on here, why dont we just buy doos. Sorry for the hostillity. someone talk some sense into me because im on the verge of trading this thing in for a doo and hoping the engine holds up. I occasionally check doo talk, comparable to this site and all those guys talk about is how much they love thier sleds. yea thier are the occasional problems but compared to the posts on here no comparison, this site is mostly looking like ways to make our sled handle like the others. Yea the engine is solid but from the sounds of things the rest isnt.
apexgt4life
Expert
oh by the way if i want to set the preload properly does it matter what the dampening adjustments are set at
LJ 452
TY 4 Stroke God
The way I understand it unless you've got a ball valve on your fluid port it shouldn't matter. Just adjust the spring. Yes I'm referring to the Nytro. Seems like there maybe some light at the end of the tunnel with this susp.
I probably should add that the Mono is one of the smoothest susp. I ever ridden. It just can't take medium to large bumps at speed. But smooth trails, or studders can't beat it.
I probably should add that the Mono is one of the smoothest susp. I ever ridden. It just can't take medium to large bumps at speed. But smooth trails, or studders can't beat it.
apexgt4life
Expert
but my question is what sled cant tale the small stuff its smooth a 1975 john deere could handle it, its when the trails get rough is when u need a sled to perform, i have not ridden a rev, has anyone out thier and are they that good
ReX
TY 4 Stroke God
apexgt4life said:
Skidoos have great suspensions. It is that simple. They don't break, don't bottom out, are comfortable to ride, and are stable on rough trails at speed.
On the other hand, other than the suspensions & skis, the rest of these Yamaha sleds is top notch. Many of us, myself included, really hates the vibrating, stinking 2-strokes so we stick it out with these poorly calibrated suspensions and do the best we can with them.
Got Apex RTX, I highly recommend not installing Apex RTX valving. It is absolutely terrible - especially the 2007 year. Also, the Nytro uses 40mm shocks, while the RTX uses 36mm shocks (so it uses a different piston and I expect different valve diameters).
dave_dj1
Pro
i think you also have to remember you are riding a "groomed trail sled" and not a ditch banger, it's like comparing a road bike to a motocross bike, it's just not made to handle that kind of trail well.
