09 handwarmer resistance

[Timeline]

Not really just there to fool the ECM to think that the grips are there in a simulation kind of way. Turn the grips down to no bars. Therefore no current. I haven't really looked into the signal the adjustment switch sends to the ECM but it may be able to be disconnected after the grips are adjusted to no bars or off.

Here's another idea. How about we wire the current switch and ECM circuit to a high wattage cartridge resistor of 7 ohms from say AC like my ZRT inside the bar. Then we use direct battery voltage with the Hot Grips
PWM controller to power the current factory grips. Like supplement heat.

The only problem then would be melting the grips. You may be able to cook hot dogs trail side.

5:00pm, man where did the day go. Time to go home.

 

[BLUEBALLER]

Won't the 7-Ohm resistors still eat our limited supply of Watts? I'm thinking we want to use these same Watts in another heater scenario.

I really like the cartridge heater idea.

he's talking about if you bypass the factory toggle and wire in your grips/elements off of the battery. the sled will throw an error if it doesn't "sense" a load.

 

[Timeline]

Won't the 7-Ohm resistors still eat our limited supply of Watts? I'm thinking we want to use these same Watts in another heater scenario.

I really like the cartridge heater idea.

he's talking about if you bypass the factory toggle and wire in your grips/elements off of the battery. the sled will throw an error if it doesn't "sense" a load.

I understand, I think it doesn't need to see a load. Just a resistive circuit. Kinda like having the grips at no bars or off. No current. The switch may just be a type of communication. Like the electronic communication of BUS + BUS -.

 

[ruffryder]

Please do, as I truely hate assumptions. Not to sure where the 50-70% number came from. Probably from someones azz. lol jk

yep, that would be mine.... though it was based (very loosly) on the fluke output that was posted.

 

[LoneViper]

I've read this with alot of intrest, I too have a Nytro with no heat. My previous sled was a Vector with the streight grips. I understand every one wants to keep the hooked bars but I keep wondering what Yamaha did differently on my 05 Vector verses this sled. According to every wireing diagram I can find the Vector grips are also controled by the ECU but are wired in series, the grip resistance is down in the 1.7 - 2 Ohm range maybe slightly higher. At any rate the 05 ECU can handle the extra wattage.

Are there any thoughts what the differance could be?

 

[BLUEBALLER]

The long awaited RESULTS!!!

Well - some good news for those that have been following. Wired everything up today and took some temp. readings. I used the same IR gauge I used last year on the stock grips and here are the numbers.

Last year with stock handgrips riding @ -9.2C (15.4F).
after riding sled for 10-15 mins, full throttle pulls, grips would only heat to approx. 5.3 C (41F)

Tonight with hotgrips installed I was able to rev sled up to about 3000 rpms. Couldn't go any higher as I don't have a belt on and the primary clutch was a banging away.

Anywho - garage temp was approx 15C(59F) and after 2-3 mins of idling/light revving the grips measured

drum roll please


42 C (107F) !!!!!!

The power resistors were warm to the touch.

Total resistance of each loop after I soldered everything was 4.5 ohms.
Total current through ECU is now 6.2 Amps
Total power through each hotgrip is 33 Watts.

I'm expecting that after some full throttle pulls - she's a gonna heat up nicely!!!!!!!



Hope everyone else sees similar results - This cowboy is done with cold hand forever!!

If I ever meet the engineer that designed these things boy

 

[TurboMatt]

Re: The long awaited RESULTS!!!

Well - some good news for those that have been following. Wired everything up today and took some temp. readings. I used the same IR gauge I used last year on the stock grips and here are the numbers.

Last year with stock handgrips riding @ -9.2C (15.4F).
after riding sled for 10-15 mins, full throttle pulls, grips would only heat to approx. 5.3 C (41F)

Tonight with hotgrips installed I was able to rev sled up to about 3000 rpms. Couldn't go any higher as I don't have a belt on and the primary clutch was a banging away.

Anywho - garage temp was approx 15C(59F) and after 2-3 mins of idling/light revving the grips measured

drum roll please


42 C (107F) !!!!!!

The power resistors were warm to the touch.

Total resistance of each loop after I soldered everything was 4.5 ohms.
Total current through ECU is now 6.2 Amps
Total power through each hotgrip is 33 Watts.

I'm expecting that after some full throttle pulls - she's a gonna heat up nicely!!!!!!!



Hope everyone else sees similar results - This cowboy is done with cold hand forever!!

If I ever meet the engineer that designed these things boy

Great to hear... Could you please explain a little better what you did for us "not so smart " people ...LOL

pics?

 

[arteeex]

My sled is in the garage, toward the back. Between two Skidoos. You can't miss it. I'll leave milk and cookies out for when you're done swapping out my grips.

So...we're done here then?

Nice work.

 

[Goddo]

Nice work Blueballer...Glad to see you have good results.

I've been following this thread closely and trying to keep all the techy stuff in my head.

The best I can understand about the circuit is that the switch is wired through the ECU. The power through the circuit is constant, but the only difference between high and low is how long the circuit stays on (also controlled via the ECU/PCM).

Finally, the ECU expects something on the circuit or it throws a code to the gauge.

Is this correct.

Well, I am thinking that rather that trying different grips isn't there a way that we can close the circuit for the ECU so that it doesn't show a code and then by pass it all together. Wire the grips from the Toggle through whatever you need to (resistors, different PCM, etc) and to the grips. By doing this you won't damage the ECU and you should be able to increase the power as much as you need to.

I'm no electrical engineer so I might be way off base. But I figure, if the Toggle switch tells the ECU how to control the grips, and the ECU is limiting the amount of power that can be supplied to the grips, then eliminating the ECU from the circuit should be the first step to warmer hands? The Toggle switch should be capable of increasing and decreasing power through the circuit?

 

[BLUEBALLER]

Nice work Blueballer...Glad to see you have good results.

I've been following this thread closely and trying to keep all the techy stuff in my head.

The best I can understand about the circuit is that the switch is wired through the ECU. The power through the circuit is constant, but the only difference between high and low is how long the circuit stays on (also controlled via the ECU/PCM).

Finally, the ECU expects something on the circuit or it throws a code to the gauge.

Is this correct.

Well, I am thinking that rather that trying different grips isn't there a way that we can close the circuit for the ECU so that it doesn't show a code and then by pass it all together. Wire the grips from the Toggle through whatever you need to (resistors, different PCM, etc) and to the grips. By doing this you won't damage the ECU and you should be able to increase the power as much as you need to.

I'm no electrical engineer so I might be way off base. But I figure, if the Toggle switch tells the ECU how to control the grips, and the ECU is limiting the amount of power that can be supplied to the grips, then eliminating the ECU from the circuit should be the first step to warmer hands? The Toggle switch should be capable of increasing and decreasing power through the circuit?

you're close in your understanding - I believe the voltage is constant, not the power. The way I understand it is the current flow "on-time" is controlled via the ECU. meaning when the toggle is on low, the "on-time" between pulses is longer, and when the toggle is on full, the "on-time" between pulses is shorter. Hence, longer current flow through your grips & therefore, more power, and you got it - more heat!

We have no idea how this thing is programmed, there are many different types of waveforms and I have no idea what these ones look like. I'm still waiting for ruffyrider to hook up his silly scope.

I wasn't too concerned trying to bypass the ECU - I mean, yammy been running your grips through em for how many years?

I spoke to a dealer about bypassing the ECU altogether and he tells me something along the line of "the sled is designed to have the heaters off at idle because of the complex fuel injection system. If you draw too much power, you'll mess up the FI and your sled will be down on power"

make of it what you will. needless to say - I've since moved to a different dealer.

You may be able to bypass and go straight to your battery with no significant issues. I chose to use that convenient large toggle located right on my handlebars which has 10 heat settings, rather than the ugly and very basic old school on /off toggle that came with my hotgrips.

good luck with whatever route you choose.

 

[OneBadWarrior]

Blueballer - great job!! You have made many, many Yamaha riders very happy! The only thing to do now is a summary thread to publish as a 'FIX'. Great job, this is the meat of what a forum is supposed to be.... dig in!!!!!

 

[LJ 452]

Nice work Blueballer...Glad to see you have good results.

I've been following this thread closely and trying to keep all the techy stuff in my head.

The best I can understand about the circuit is that the switch is wired through the ECU. The power through the circuit is constant, but the only difference between high and low is how long the circuit stays on (also controlled via the ECU/PCM).

Finally, the ECU expects something on the circuit or it throws a code to the gauge.

Is this correct.

Well, I am thinking that rather that trying different grips isn't there a way that we can close the circuit for the ECU so that it doesn't show a code and then by pass it all together. Wire the grips from the Toggle through whatever you need to (resistors, different PCM, etc) and to the grips. By doing this you won't damage the ECU and you should be able to increase the power as much as you need to.

I'm no electrical engineer so I might be way off base. But I figure, if the Toggle switch tells the ECU how to control the grips, and the ECU is limiting the amount of power that can be supplied to the grips, then eliminating the ECU from the circuit should be the first step to warmer hands? The Toggle switch should be capable of increasing and decreasing power through the circuit?

The ECU controls the amount of power to the grips via a PWM (pulse wave modulator) this functions by rapidly turning on/off. Basically it turns on for 5 mSec. then off for 10 mSec. the result is an RMS of less then full power. The thing to remember here is that the PWM runs at full power whenever it is in the "on" mode. The heat is regulated by how much "on" there is. So in essesnce Blue is pulling 6 amps for the 1 to 10 mSec. of each pulse (or whatever the pulse duration is). This while much better than just running the 06' bars at 14 amps. Still leaves me wondering how long the ECU will endure this extra amperage. However this does maintain your stock controls, which is very nice. Before we post any of the ideas as a "fix" I think we need to get more data and also let others finish their trials so that everyone can make an educated choice on which method, if any, they would like. I know this is a major issue with everyone, but it's Sept. we've got time.

Blue, great job we've definently got something here. One down a few to go.

 

[r0tax]

funny how a car can sit and idle in the drive way, heater on full blast, steareo cranked up, subs pounding...making the dome lights dim...and they stay running! hmmm...


"official" excuses are disapointing..

no more is there "please the customer" in CS, its "make up an excuse for it not being the manufactures issue, and blame someone else."

haha

so in the end, you "make things work" yourself.



and as for time...less than a month now... so not much of that either!

 

[Ding]

Can you draw up a schematic?

 

[glmf]

Can you draw up a schematic?

Please, for us non EE's, some help in say, maybe welder speak?