09 handwarmer resistance

[Turtle]

Here are some pics of the readings I took on the fluke meter. It shows you the PWM signal.

The first pic is of a hi setting. You can see how long the signal is. The second pic is of a lower setting. You can see how the amplitude (voltage) of the signal doesn't change. But the length of the signal does change.

 

[Timeline]

Gade- thrasher was that at idle? It's a liitle hard to see but it looks like it says 10 volts. I do realize that the sine will not change.
I'd like to see how they fire the transistor in the Hot Grip controller.

 

[Turtle]

Gade- thrasher was that at idle? It's a liitle hard to see but it looks like it says 10 volts. I do realize that the sine will not change.
I'd like to see how they fire the transistor in the Hot Grip controller.

Pics were taken over a year ago, so I can't remember what rpm the readings were taken at. But it was above idle speed. The increments on the screen settings were 10V ... so you can see the amplitude of the signal is just a little above 12V.

 

[yamy07]

Has anyone ever checked the resistance of the warmers on a set of Cat bars? They have some nice hooked ones, and I don't see too many complaints about their handwarmers being too cold. If their's have a lower resistance than 7.2 each side or 3.6 in parallel - I think you could have a winner. If needed you could add a small resistor in series to reduce the current to closer to stock. I'd like to try double the stock delivered watts for starters.

 

[ruffryder]

Yeah, I've heard the 4500 rpm info as well. I guess we'll see in a few weeks.

nytro stock
left heating element- 7.3 ohms
right heating element- 7.2 ohms
parallel - 3.62 ohms
total power = 54W @ 14V
27 W ea grip
amps = 3.86

hotgrips wired in parallel w/ 4 ohm resistor
total = 3.5 ohms
56 watts total @ 14V
28 watts each grip
amps = 4
5 or 7.5 amp fuse needed for each hotgrip to protect ECU just in case!

Dude, I hate to do this to you....

Your power level of 56 watts is for the combined circuit, including the power resisters. The power going to your warmers (assuming 3 ohm per side) is only 24 watts, with 32 being dissipated as heat from your resisters.

7 ohms, and the warmers being 3, their power will be 3/7ths of the total power in the circuit. For one side that is 28, 16 for the resister and 12 for the warmer.

(This is for assuming that you have a 3 ohm element in series with a 4 ohm power resistor. Two of these 7 ohm sections (3+4) are then put in parallel (one per side to make a set) for an equivalent resistance of 3.5 ohms..)

Sorry man, but I think my math is good.

Oh, yah, one more thing, voltage should be around 13 volts... I think the battery is 12.6 volts at full charge...

 

[ruffryder]

Here are some pics of the readings I took on the fluke meter. It shows you the PWM signal.

What is your time scale on the bottom? Do you know the time period? ..... Just curious....

 

[Turtle]

Here are some pics of the readings I took on the fluke meter. It shows you the PWM signal.

What is your time scale on the bottom? Do you know the time period? ..... Just curious....

Sorry - I don't know that. I analyzed the circuit over a year ago.

 

[ruffryder]

Sorry - I don't know that. I analyzed the circuit over a year ago.

I had to take a shot... Excellent work by the way. I would have never thought the power to be a PWM signal....

 

[LJ 452]

Gade, thanks for the info, you did exactly what I was planning on doing. I wanted to know how long the pulse "on" time was along with the dwell between pulses. This tells me that the likely senario for the heat issue is that Yamaha has either decreased the "on" time or increased the "off" time of the pules wave. Maybe to reduce power draw, or something. The only thing left to do is figure out if the pulse is shut down when hitting the brakes. Does anyone have the resistance of the RX1 or Vector grips. If they are the same then I think that it is just a matter of pulse timing. If there was only a way to look into that little black box....I think what I'm going to do is oder the pulse adjuster knob from HotGrips and just wire to/from the battery with a switched relay to the stock grips. Just need to figure out a safe way to bypass the stock harness so that I don't get a fault code. I can't remember if you had to have the thumb and one grip or just one of the three to keep the code from appearing. Either way I'll be controling my grip heat from the knob and the thumb heat from the stock button.

 

[lucky_7]

Gade, thanks for the info, you did exactly what I was planning on doing. I wanted to know how long the pulse "on" time was along with the dwell between pulses. This tells me that the likely senario for the heat issue is that Yamaha has either decreased the "on" time or increased the "off" time of the pules wave. Maybe to reduce power draw, or something. The only thing left to do is figure out if the pulse is shut down when hitting the brakes. Does anyone have the resistance of the RX1 or Vector grips. If they are the same then I think that it is just a matter of pulse timing. If there was only a way to look into that little black box....I think what I'm going to do is oder the pulse adjuster knob from HotGrips and just wire to/from the battery with a switched relay to the stock grips. Just need to figure out a safe way to bypass the stock harness so that I don't get a fault code. I can't remember if you had to have the thumb and one grip or just one of the three to keep the code from appearing. Either way I'll be controling my grip heat from the knob and the thumb heat from the stock button.

It sounds like English, but I don't understand a word that you said.

 

[Timeline]

Gade, thanks for the info, you did exactly what I was planning on doing. I wanted to know how long the pulse "on" time was along with the dwell between pulses. This tells me that the likely senario for the heat issue is that Yamaha has either decreased the "on" time or increased the "off" time of the pules wave. Maybe to reduce power draw, or something. The only thing left to do is figure out if the pulse is shut down when hitting the brakes. Does anyone have the resistance of the RX1 or Vector grips. If they are the same then I think that it is just a matter of pulse timing. If there was only a way to look into that little black box....I think what I'm going to do is oder the pulse adjuster knob from HotGrips and just wire to/from the battery with a switched relay to the stock grips. Just need to figure out a safe way to bypass the stock harness so that I don't get a fault code. I can't remember if you had to have the thumb and one grip or just one of the three to keep the code from appearing. Either way I'll be controling my grip heat from the knob and the thumb heat from the stock button.

This is what I have been saying I'd like to try. I think Blueballer has got the Hot Grips but I don't know if he has got the PWM controller to check the frequency of the pulses. In an earlier post someone contacted Hot Grips, I was hoping that they would chime in with some specs.
I'd like to keep the stock bars with the heated hooks.
The code could be easily fixed by installing the correct resistor of the same value as the resistance of the grips. Basically the wires that are disconnected from the grips that go to the ECM.

 

[BLUEBALLER]

Yeah, I've heard the 4500 rpm info as well. I guess we'll see in a few weeks.

nytro stock
left heating element- 7.3 ohms
right heating element- 7.2 ohms
parallel - 3.62 ohms
total power = 54W @ 14V
27 W ea grip
amps = 3.86

hotgrips wired in parallel w/ 4 ohm resistor
total = 3.5 ohms
56 watts total @ 14V
28 watts each grip
amps = 4
5 or 7.5 amp fuse needed for each hotgrip to protect ECU just in case!

Dude, I hate to do this to you....

Your power level of 56 watts is for the combined circuit, including the power resisters. The power going to your warmers (assuming 3 ohm per side) is only 24 watts, with 32 being dissipated as heat from your resisters.

7 ohms, and the warmers being 3, their power will be 3/7ths of the total power in the circuit. For one side that is 28, 16 for the resister and 12 for the warmer.

(This is for assuming that you have a 3 ohm element in series with a 4 ohm power resistor. Two of these 7 ohm sections (3+4) are then put in parallel (one per side to make a set) for an equivalent resistance of 3.5 ohms..)

Sorry man, but I think my math is good.

Oh, yah, one more thing, voltage should be around 13 volts... I think the battery is 12.6 volts at full charge...

Hallelujuh, we almost have a winner!! I'm adding TWO resistors, one in series with each grip. If you need me to draw a diagram to help you, I can. I have the SAME hotgrips on another sled and they get SMOKING hot at that wattage. I just don't get what part you guys can't wrap your head around??

It'll work, if it doesn't, I'll be the first to admit it.

For the record, the reason I'm adding resistors is to lower current flow through ECU, so I run the toggle all the way up to 10 bars.

So.......... I'm going to let this die till I get them mounted and tested. I'm done trying to explain this to people. Either you get it, or you don't.

apparently, most on here don't.

 

[BLUEBALLER]

Has anyone ever checked the resistance of the warmers on a set of Cat bars? They have some nice hooked ones, and I don't see too many complaints about their handwarmers being too cold. If their's have a lower resistance than 7.2 each side or 3.6 in parallel - I think you could have a winner. If needed you could add a small resistor in series to reduce the current to closer to stock. I'd like to try double the stock delivered watts for starters.

Mother of God! Could this be what I'm trying to do?? Add a small resistor in series to reduce current to bring it closer to stock?? No, couldn't be.
Maybe it is? stay tuned.

 

[LJ 452]

This is what I have been saying I'd like to try. I think Blueballer has got the Hot Grips but I don't know if he has got the PWM controller to check the frequency of the pulses. In an earlier post someone contacted Hot Grips, I was hoping that they would chime in with some specs.
I'd like to keep the stock bars with the heated hooks.
The code could be easily fixed by installing the correct resistor of the same value as the resistance of the grips. Basically the wires that are disconnected from the grips that go to the ECM.

Yes that's basically what I plan on doing, the resistor that is. Looking at Gades Fluke Scope it appeard that at full power the pulse is basically half on half off. I can't see the time scale but it really doesn't matter, it only on 50% of the time. I really think this is the main issue. According to the Hot Grips site the PWM allows 0-99.5%. Which I read as 0% or off to darn near continuously on. At 99.5% the switch in one minute would have a total off time of only 0.3 seconds. The way the stock appers to opperate it would be off for a total of 30 seconds during a minute. Little bit of a difference.

Where is my sled so I can start doing some testing!!!

 

[ruffryder]

I have the SAME hotgrips on another sled and they get SMOKING hot at that wattage. I just don't get what part you guys can't wrap your head around??

You are not comparing apples to apples unless your previous example had the same amount (%) of resistance added. You will see less then half of the power you are assuming. I think you are forgetting that the resistor added in series creates a voltage drop, which will reduce the voltage on the hand warmer. The handwarmer will see less then half of the voltage and that is why your power is reduced. You are correct, you did add them to reduce the current flow, but you also reduced the voltage.... which reduced the power even more..