2014

[SledFreak]

Reliability and ski-doo haven't gone together since the pre-epa era.
I read somewhere that bombardier pushed ahead the release of rev because they knew yamaha was coming with the rx-1. Ski-doo plays the marketing game better than anyone and would love to release something to kill any buzz yamaha can create.
My bottom line: a new chassis, significant weight loss and it's a spring order.

You guys are comparing to the Yamaha Engines to the DOO 2 strokes, WHICH YOU SHOULD NOT. They are not in the same category, same as a Cat Turbo. A Turbo sled is just that a Turbo sled. The DOO 1200 is a very reliable engine and very fast and quick for what it is.

Now my belief is this... If Yamaha is going to release something then you can bet DOO will release a bigger 4 stroke. My bet is they are sitting on a 160-180NA sled waiting to drop the ball. The 1200 is a very capable motor of being modded and producing way more power. If you look as to why they have not done it yet is because for 1, the etec 800 sells like hot cakes even though the motor is not reliable. 2. The 1200 holds its own against the Nytro and the Apex. Now when you look at the entire package (4 stroke), the DOO is better then the Yamaha at most levels, HOLD ON.... but NOT all and DOO does not even market this sled, because they like to play the etec card... Its cheaper and the best selling sled on the market today... The stats speak for itself. I am also NOT an etec fan. But, The 600 is a pretty good engine it's the 800 that has alot of problems. Are the etec's as good as a 4 stroke. No, not at all... But they are awesome on fuel and are fairly reliable as far as a 600 2 stroke is concerned. I can say all of this because I have owned an Apex, Nytro XTX and 2 ski-doo 1200's and my last DOO before the Apex was an 800 crank eating machine..

So let me reiterate... Lots of rumors flying from both colors here and my belief is and from what I am told is that the new DOO 4 stroke coming is supposed to be pretty wicket (160-180HP) and I also believe they are just waiting from Yamaha to release something, so they can too... So in Yamaha's defense I hope its good enough....

If you don't think DOO can build a 4 stroke, then just look at the Can-am line and Sea DOO line. Most powerful 4 strokes on the market and they are very reliable, maybe not Yamaha reliable, but they are damn close, which will be good enough for most....

 

[SledFreak]

it's so easy to get a nitro to handle well

I can't help it, that's a hilarious statement. Your definition of "handle well" and mine (along with most other people) are drastically different. Spend some time on Dootalk and see how many threads there are about people complaining about their MX-Z XP's handling. Look to see how many aftermarket companies are offering a-arm kits and different spindles for the XP to get them to handle better.
quote]

I agree... I spent thousands trying to get mine to handle... The most money I ever spent on a sled that did NOT have mechanical issues. Unacceptable!

 

[Daranello]

Today I rode both 1200 and 800 EtEc X pkg Renegade...

the 1200 with a MPRP header was SLOWER on top end than my apex (railbed trail with snow),,,,Top speed on his speedo was 99mph, but I was passing him with my touring windsheild...I also wasnt impressed with the motor..its electric...not snappy and fun like my nytro...the Nytro and the Apex have WAY better motors than that 1200....

now the 800 EtEc,,,,,Thats a rocket ship....what a fun sled and that motors rips...

If I had to buy something now it would be a 800Etec.... if I had to buy a 4 stroke again...it would be a Nytro

 

[4strokesmokextx]

it's so easy to get a nitro to handle well

I can't help it, that's a hilarious statement. Your definition of "handle well" and mine (along with most other people) are drastically different. Spend some time on Dootalk and see how many threads there are about people complaining about their MX-Z XP's handling. Look to see how many aftermarket companies are offering a-arm kits and different spindles for the XP to get them to handle better.

Clatia,
I agree, the Yamaha engineers need to drop the whole program of trying making each model special and individualized from the next. Their efforts need to be focused on performance, handling, light weight. I don't care how fast a Yamaha can go in a straight line, eventually I'm going to need to turn and I just want the sled to turn, no drama, no head shake, no bars twitching from side to side from the bumps, just go around the damn corner like a Polaris, Cat or Doo. If the money was redirected from styling and trying to make the sleds look so futuristic and put into performance they'd gain customers. I almost wonder if there is a generation of engineers that look at the '84 Phazer and think, "Wow, I really need to come out with something that is totally revolutionary looking". But they forget it was the performance, the light weight and ability to float on top of the snow that made the original Phazer the best selling sled of that time.

Good to see Snowtech posting something about the 14's. I'm curious to see if there might be a reborn Yamaha coming out. I'd hope that the total lack of real updates and innovations to the Phazer and Nytro over their production run was justified and they instead were focusing their money and efforts into something much better and lighter.

Are you hearing yourself? Bc I what I'm getting from that statement is rather confusing. In the first paragraph you say how there's all of these threads on dootalk about how XP's handle like crap. Then in the very next paragraph you say you want the nytro to handle like an XP. If a XP already handles like crap (supposedly) then why would anyone want to handle the same?

And for people to say you have to spend thousands of dollars to get a nytro to handle right is a joke. I have a 09 xtx and to date I've spent $0 on anything to affect handling. I've only put on a different exhaust, changed the track last year and now wider skis this year. The last two were only need bc I found myself going to the mountains more then riding trails. When riding trails I thought it handled just fine for my style, and didn't see the need for all of these other "necessities". Everyone I ride with that has a yamaha has them bc quite simply you can just get on them and go! No wrenching on anything!

Now what ever yamaha comes out with, if it fits my riding style there's a good chance I could end up getting one. If not then ill just keep my xtx and continue to rack up miles on it!

 

[SledFreak]

Today I rode both 1200 and 800 EtEc X pkg Renegade...

the 1200 with a MPRP header was SLOWER on top end than my apex (railbed trail with snow),,,,Top speed on his speedo was 99mph, but I was passing him with my touring windsheild...I also wasnt impressed with the motor..its electric...not snappy and fun like my nytro...the Nytro and the Apex have WAY better motors than that 1200....

now the 800 EtEc,,,,,Thats a rocket ship....what a fun sled and that motors rips...

If I had to buy something now it would be a 800Etec.... if I had to buy a 4 stroke again...it would be a Nytro

Electric is instant, no? The clutching is not to be desired on the stock 1200, but my 1200 with a PB80 easily beats my old Nytro XTX with the same mods and is quicker and has way more top end over a stocker. If the guy only had a header, then he probably slowed it down.. Everysetup is different.. My 1200 runs side by side to a stock 800 etec...

 

[SledFreak]

it's so easy to get a nitro to handle well

I can't help it, that's a hilarious statement. Your definition of "handle well" and mine (along with most other people) are drastically different. Spend some time on Dootalk and see how many threads there are about people complaining about their MX-Z XP's handling. Look to see how many aftermarket companies are offering a-arm kits and different spindles for the XP to get them to handle better.

Clatia,
I agree, the Yamaha engineers need to drop the whole program of trying making each model special and individualized from the next. Their efforts need to be focused on performance, handling, light weight. I don't care how fast a Yamaha can go in a straight line, eventually I'm going to need to turn and I just want the sled to turn, no drama, no head shake, no bars twitching from side to side from the bumps, just go around the damn corner like a Polaris, Cat or Doo. If the money was redirected from styling and trying to make the sleds look so futuristic and put into performance they'd gain customers. I almost wonder if there is a generation of engineers that look at the '84 Phazer and think, "Wow, I really need to come out with something that is totally revolutionary looking". But they forget it was the performance, the light weight and ability to float on top of the snow that made the original Phazer the best selling sled of that time.

Good to see Snowtech posting something about the 14's. I'm curious to see if there might be a reborn Yamaha coming out. I'd hope that the total lack of real updates and innovations to the Phazer and Nytro over their production run was justified and they instead were focusing their money and efforts into something much better and lighter.

Are you hearing yourself? Bc I what I'm getting from that statement is rather confusing. In the first paragraph you say how there's all of these threads on dootalk about how XP's handle like crap. Then in the very next paragraph you say you want the nytro to handle like an XP. If a XP already handles like crap (supposedly) then why would anyone want to handle the same?

And for people to say you have to spend thousands of dollars to get a nytro to handle right is a joke. I have a 09 xtx and to date I've spent $0 on anything to affect handling. I've only put on a different exhaust, changed the track last year and now wider skis this year. The last two were only need bc I found myself going to the mountains more then riding trails. When riding trails I thought it handled just fine for my style, and didn't see the need for all of these other "necessities". Everyone I ride with that has a yamaha has them bc quite simply you can just get on them and go! No wrenching on anything!

Now what ever yamaha comes out with, if it fits my riding style there's a good chance I could end up getting one. If not then ill just keep my xtx and continue to rack up miles on it!

Your Dreaming! Just go read the Nytro Forum. I am NOT the only one that complained about the Nytro handling. Every mag has said and most people that own one say it. Ther is a reason why they changed the front end and chassis in 09 from the 08. There is also a reason why Yamaha has a front end used specifically for racers. Do some reading and educate yourself.

 

[NY AttakGT]

I have to agree with the Nytro handling like crap in stock form. I have not ridden a single stock Nytro that I like yet over my Attak, which again I put alot of $$ and time to get it to handle the way I like.

The only 2 Nytros I have ridden that handled GREAT was Nick (one of the owner's of Curve Industries) who had the Curve skis obviously, front end work and Fox Evol 2 shocks upfront and ALOT of time tweaking and tuning. And another riding buddy who has an RTX with an Expert X, Yammy Mtn skis and Dartless setup on the skis. Otherwise, the sled feels darty, unpredictable in turns, tippy...you name it, that is in my opinion for my riding style.

 

[sheetwright]

http://www.supertraxmag.com/article.asp?nid=2433

Here is the competition boys! Everyone is turning it up a notch

 

[low slung]

Reliability and ski-doo haven't gone together since the pre-epa era.
I read somewhere that bombardier pushed ahead the release of rev because they knew yamaha was coming with the rx-1. Ski-doo plays the marketing game better than anyone and would love to release something to kill any buzz yamaha can create.
My bottom line: a new chassis, significant weight loss and it's a spring order.

You guys are comparing to the Yamaha Engines to the DOO 2 strokes, WHICH YOU SHOULD NOT. They are not in the same category, same as a Cat Turbo. A Turbo sled is just that a Turbo sled. The DOO 1200 is a very reliable engine and very fast and quick for what it is.

Now my belief is this... If Yamaha is going to release something then you can bet DOO will release a bigger 4 stroke. My bet is they are sitting on a 160-180NA sled waiting to drop the ball. The 1200 is a very capable motor of being modded and producing way more power. If you look as to why they have not done it yet is because for 1, the etec 800 sells like hot cakes even though the motor is not reliable. 2. The 1200 holds its own against the Nytro and the Apex. Now when you look at the entire package (4 stroke), the DOO is better then the Yamaha at most levels, HOLD ON.... but NOT all and DOO does not even market this sled, because they like to play the etec card... Its cheaper and the best selling sled on the market today... The stats speak for itself. I am also NOT an etec fan. But, The 600 is a pretty good engine it's the 800 that has alot of problems. Are the etec's as good as a 4 stroke. No, not at all... But they are awesome on fuel and are fairly reliable as far as a 600 2 stroke is concerned. I can say all of this because I have owned an Apex, Nytro XTX and 2 ski-doo 1200's and my last DOO before the Apex was an 800 crank eating machine..

So let me reiterate... Lots of rumors flying from both colors here and my belief is and from what I am told is that the new DOO 4 stroke coming is supposed to be pretty wicket (160-180HP) and I also believe they are just waiting from Yamaha to release something, so they can too... So in Yamaha's defense I hope its good enough....

If you don't think DOO can build a 4 stroke, then just look at the Can-am line and Sea DOO line. Most powerful 4 strokes on the market and they are very reliable, maybe not Yamaha reliable, but they are damn close, which will be good enough for most....

Third reason ski-doo won,t release a turbo sled...clutch durability.There engineers are having a hard time getting the clutches to last(ski-doos standards,not yamaha).Heard this on dootalk from an inside source.Ski-doo was also going to release a summit 1200 4 years back but the dealers had no interest in it(don,t see many of them out west modded, or stock).

 

[jat59]

Remember a number of years back CAT had that twin tracked "speed record" sled they were working with? Remember the MANTA? Just thinking.......HMMMMMMM........lets put them and YAMAHA together for a game changer. OH, lets also add a convertible top LOL

 

[Daranello]

Today I rode both 1200 and 800 EtEc X pkg Renegade...

the 1200 with a MPRP header was SLOWER on top end than my apex (railbed trail with snow),,,,Top speed on his speedo was 99mph, but I was passing him with my touring windsheild...I also wasnt impressed with the motor..its electric...not snappy and fun like my nytro...the Nytro and the Apex have WAY better motors than that 1200....

now the 800 EtEc,,,,,Thats a rocket ship....what a fun sled and that motors rips...

If I had to buy something now it would be a 800Etec.... if I had to buy a 4 stroke again...it would be a Nytro

Electric is instant, no? The clutching is not to be desired on the stock 1200, but my 1200 with a PB80 easily beats my old Nytro XTX with the same mods and is quicker and has way more top end over a stocker. If the guy only had a header, then he probably slowed it down.. Everysetup is different.. My 1200 runs side by side to a stock 800 etec...

It just was lacking that snap, coming out of the corners between 50-90mph and punch it and was boring. Just didn't have that snap.....but man the 800e-Tec was wild...I.m still grinning.......I still say the nytro is a funner motor..lmaybe the 1200 is faster...but seat of the pants it's boring in my books...,

I mean clutch engaged at 1800 and top end at 8400....snore...

 

[cacsrx1]

Bar none the Nytro is the worst handleing sled on the snow out of the box.

 

[Daranello]

Bar none the Nytro is the worst handleing sled on the snow out of the box.

my Nytro XTX, out handles this 2011 Apex....I cant get this apex to rail

 

[AKrider]

Are you hearing yourself? Bc I what I'm getting from that statement is rather confusing. In the first paragraph you say how there's all of these threads on dootalk about how XP's handle like crap. Then in the very next paragraph you say you want the nytro to handle like an XP. If a XP already handles like crap (supposedly) then why would anyone want to handle the same?

And for people to say you have to spend thousands of dollars to get a nytro to handle right is a joke. I have a 09 xtx and to date I've spent $0 on anything to affect handling. I've only put on a different exhaust, changed the track last year and now wider skis this year. The last two were only need bc I found myself going to the mountains more then riding trails. When riding trails I thought it handled just fine for my style, and didn't see the need for all of these other "necessities". Everyone I ride with that has a yamaha has them bc quite simply you can just get on them and go! No wrenching on anything!

Now what ever yamaha comes out with, if it fits my riding style there's a good chance I could end up getting one. If not then ill just keep my xtx and continue to rack up miles on it!

It was a rhetorical question to that poster. If you spend any time on Dootalk you WILL NOT see all kinds of parts and mods for Doo owners to get their XP's to handle. The XP's handle decently right out of the crate.

 

[AKrider]

Today I rode both 1200 and 800 EtEc X pkg Renegade...

the 1200 with a MPRP header was SLOWER on top end than my apex (railbed trail with snow),,,,Top speed on his speedo was 99mph, but I was passing him with my touring windsheild...I also wasnt impressed with the motor..its electric...not snappy and fun like my nytro...the Nytro and the Apex have WAY better motors than that 1200....

now the 800 EtEc,,,,,Thats a rocket ship....what a fun sled and that motors rips...

If I had to buy something now it would be a 800Etec.... if I had to buy a 4 stroke again...it would be a Nytro

Not my intent to be a Ski-doo cheerleader but you can't compare the top speed of a 130 HP 1200 against a 150-160 HP Apex. The 1200 competes with the Nytro and does so quite well from what I've read. I've never ridden one but truly, what's not to like? It's lighter and handles better. Yamaha never upgraded the Nytro sufficiently to best the 1200. The Doo etech 2-strokes aren't the best for reliability but they are not doing bad at all with their 4-strokes. It's almost like their 4-strokes are a second thought and just exist to take customers away from Yamaha. Cat now has a good handling 4-stroke in the Nytro's class but the motor is slow. Lots of reliable choices out there if one opens their eyes.