yamajammer76
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
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yamahabandit said:
I rode them for years and they were fine, but I just prefer the design and build of the Yamaha. I say ride whatever you like. If you think Cat is a superior product then I'm not sure why you are spending a lot of time on these forums, but I can see you used to be a Yamaha rider.
I guess I just would prefer to have different designs to choose from when buying my next sled. Having an Arctic Cat and a painted blue re-badge available at your local Yamaha dealer isn't really that exciting to me. If you like Cat anyhow why would you buy the same thing painted blue? You wouldn't.
Does the prospect of re-badged Yamahas really excite anyone? If I can get the same thing at the Arctic Cat dealership then I don't see any point in Yamaha even offering a snowmobile. I guess maybe they want to try and give their dealers a little winter volume, but I don't see the point if re-badging is their solution to new sleds.
RobWarrior
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
Yamaha only makes sleds today to give brand blue guys something to ride in the winter...keeps them off other brands products so they can continue to sell motorsports they make money on...bikes, four wheelers and maybe even PWC's. I'd love a Yamaha with Cat chassis and Yam engine, let's face it boys the Cat has us in handling and ride quality...none of it matters without any snow on the ground?
MR.HAPPY
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I'm more excited about the "ALL NEW" side x sides coming soon!
Lack of snow the last few years is making my mind up about a new sled!
Lack of snow the last few years is making my mind up about a new sled!
SnoXer18
Extreme
I've been following the 2014 discussion intently since it first started and I don't know what they are going to do, but I have an idea about what I think would be a good move for them.
It seems to be the consensus that high mile riders are content with the current offerings but Yamaha is lacking in the rough trail / off trail offerings.
I currenrly ride 2 sleds interchangably; a 2003 MXZX 440 and a 2008 Phazer MTX with previous sleds being 1999 600 SX, 1996 V-Max 600, 1991 SRV. The MXZX had the suspension that I was looking for in a good handling chassis that fits my stand up riding style, but lacked in deep snow performance. I would get stuck trying to get into my cabin in the woods. In came the 2008 Phazer MTX, nearly polar opposite the 440. It is good off trail, but lacks suspension and is slightly low on power for my liking.
My criteria for my perfect sled isn't matched by any of the current manufacturers offerings and I am not brand loyal. It needs to be;
1 - 4-stroke (600 class performance)
2 - Long Track (144" x 2")
3 - Good Shock Package (Adjustable comp and rebound)
4 - Has storage
5 - Light weight
Engine
-For my riding I don't need 200HP but rather 130HP with good torque and crisp throttle response that allows me to control the front of the sled in the moguls or carving through technical ungroomed trails in the woods. Some people do want 200HP and that is where factory boost comes in. Yamaha has been known to use technology from their motorcycle divisions and they have a few years under their belt with a 1199cc parallel twin used in the Super Tenere adventure bikei. That engine produces about 108 HP at a tame 7,250 rpm but it is also tuned to have ultra smooth power delivery across the entire rpm range. Tune it to make peak power at about 8,200 rpm and not worry so much about the broad powerband and you should be able to put it into the mid 130s HP wise. RPM would be low enough to not need gear reduction on the primary. The twin cylinder design will keep it narrow in the chassis. Equip it with a front dump exhuast so they can add a respectable sized fuel tank and/or under seat storage.
Chassis and Suspension-
This chassis needs to serve the RTX crowd as well as the XTX crowd. 128" should be the standard length for the track with a 144" 1.75" or 2.25" option for boondocking on the XTX. Yamaha could utilize more die cast parts for strength and weight reduction. Use the race front end on a production sled. On this sled the rear skid doesn't need to offer a floating on a cloud type of ride, but it needs to be stable and predictable through moguls at speed. The shocks also better not fade after 2 miles of rough trail riding. A good rebuilidable shock package at a minimum must be an option. Please don't use cheap shocks and sell it as a weight reduction.
I know my wants probably don't line up with many other riders so my ideas are unlikely to be seen in production, just like when I was waiting for a Yamaha 440 snowcrosser in the early 2000s....
It seems to be the consensus that high mile riders are content with the current offerings but Yamaha is lacking in the rough trail / off trail offerings.
I currenrly ride 2 sleds interchangably; a 2003 MXZX 440 and a 2008 Phazer MTX with previous sleds being 1999 600 SX, 1996 V-Max 600, 1991 SRV. The MXZX had the suspension that I was looking for in a good handling chassis that fits my stand up riding style, but lacked in deep snow performance. I would get stuck trying to get into my cabin in the woods. In came the 2008 Phazer MTX, nearly polar opposite the 440. It is good off trail, but lacks suspension and is slightly low on power for my liking.
My criteria for my perfect sled isn't matched by any of the current manufacturers offerings and I am not brand loyal. It needs to be;
1 - 4-stroke (600 class performance)
2 - Long Track (144" x 2")
3 - Good Shock Package (Adjustable comp and rebound)
4 - Has storage
5 - Light weight
Engine
-For my riding I don't need 200HP but rather 130HP with good torque and crisp throttle response that allows me to control the front of the sled in the moguls or carving through technical ungroomed trails in the woods. Some people do want 200HP and that is where factory boost comes in. Yamaha has been known to use technology from their motorcycle divisions and they have a few years under their belt with a 1199cc parallel twin used in the Super Tenere adventure bikei. That engine produces about 108 HP at a tame 7,250 rpm but it is also tuned to have ultra smooth power delivery across the entire rpm range. Tune it to make peak power at about 8,200 rpm and not worry so much about the broad powerband and you should be able to put it into the mid 130s HP wise. RPM would be low enough to not need gear reduction on the primary. The twin cylinder design will keep it narrow in the chassis. Equip it with a front dump exhuast so they can add a respectable sized fuel tank and/or under seat storage.
Chassis and Suspension-
This chassis needs to serve the RTX crowd as well as the XTX crowd. 128" should be the standard length for the track with a 144" 1.75" or 2.25" option for boondocking on the XTX. Yamaha could utilize more die cast parts for strength and weight reduction. Use the race front end on a production sled. On this sled the rear skid doesn't need to offer a floating on a cloud type of ride, but it needs to be stable and predictable through moguls at speed. The shocks also better not fade after 2 miles of rough trail riding. A good rebuilidable shock package at a minimum must be an option. Please don't use cheap shocks and sell it as a weight reduction.
I know my wants probably don't line up with many other riders so my ideas are unlikely to be seen in production, just like when I was waiting for a Yamaha 440 snowcrosser in the early 2000s....
journeyman
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The more I think about this maybe Yamaha is just going to do the Cat thing with the snowcross effort and of course the 120 kids sled. Yamaha has not been successful really at all trying to crack into snocross. When you think about where they are located geographically compared to the other brands you can understand why this may be. So having Cat do the R&D on the skidframe and Yamaha being able to throw their engine in it (and paint it blue).......its a good way to get some exposure. It seems the younger crowd doesn't even know Yamaha exists in the snowmobile world. Or they just think its and old mans sled.
Mighty
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Isn't itjourneyman said:
yamaha1973
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Mighty said:Isn't itjourneyman said:
I guess 18 is pretty old then...
ouch
I can partially blame my Spinal Stenosis on Yamaha Skidframes , time for a change for myself , after getting off of a Cat years ago I put up with the Phazer,SXR,Viper,RX skids that were terrible , only reason I rode Yamahas for so long is I did a lot of solo riding and didnt want to freeze to death in the woods walking out.
I wonder who else has back problems to suspensions that suck.
I can partially blame my Spinal Stenosis on Yamaha Skidframes , time for a change for myself , after getting off of a Cat years ago I put up with the Phazer,SXR,Viper,RX skids that were terrible , only reason I rode Yamahas for so long is I did a lot of solo riding and didnt want to freeze to death in the woods walking out.
I wonder who else has back problems to suspensions that suck.
yamajammer76
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
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Re: ouch
I don't know about how the old Yamahas rode back in the day, but my 2012 Nytro XTX rides pretty darn nice.
RoyalBlue said:
I don't know about how the old Yamahas rode back in the day, but my 2012 Nytro XTX rides pretty darn nice.
bang
The 2005 RX-1 was a start with the mono , a BIG improvement , still a far cry from the Cat and Doo $ Po suspensions we hope for the best on Feb 19.
Never had the extra coin to throw down on a M10.
The 2005 RX-1 was a start with the mono , a BIG improvement , still a far cry from the Cat and Doo $ Po suspensions we hope for the best on Feb 19.
Never had the extra coin to throw down on a M10.
Ak Yammy
Expert
Re: ouch
I know both my '98 SRX and my XTC 700's did some damage, that was when my back started to hurt. My RTX is a wonder machine compared to those older sleds but compared to the new stuff it's not so great.
RoyalBlue said:
I know both my '98 SRX and my XTC 700's did some damage, that was when my back started to hurt. My RTX is a wonder machine compared to those older sleds but compared to the new stuff it's not so great.
You really think that yamaha needs cat to make a competitive snocross sled for them,funniest thing I ever heard,there is no money in this market compared to dirt bikes and motorcycle so yamaha doesn't care about it,wish they did.they dominate most other forms of racing so we all know they could blow everybody out the park if they wanted
n.e.mich
Veteran
Re: ouch
Or you could blame it on riding a snowmobile, wouldn't matter what you were on if you do something often enough. This year I have ridden a couple Rev Ski Doo's, a Pro-R..The Rev's pretty nice, I didn't find the Pro-R very comfortable at all, felt like I was on a 4 wheeler. No way would I trade my Yamaha for one thats for sure. Then again, any late model machine is better than the Skiroule, TNT's, Jag's I rode when I was young. Didn't complain then either.....was just happy to have something to ride. The Attak I have is like a big block Cadillac compared to those.
RoyalBlue said:
Or you could blame it on riding a snowmobile, wouldn't matter what you were on if you do something often enough. This year I have ridden a couple Rev Ski Doo's, a Pro-R..The Rev's pretty nice, I didn't find the Pro-R very comfortable at all, felt like I was on a 4 wheeler. No way would I trade my Yamaha for one thats for sure. Then again, any late model machine is better than the Skiroule, TNT's, Jag's I rode when I was young. Didn't complain then either.....was just happy to have something to ride. The Attak I have is like a big block Cadillac compared to those.
Frozenstiff
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"I wonder who else has back problems to suspensions that suck."
Interesting to see this quote, I have a stock 2007 Yamaha RTX ER, and I,ve set it to the softest suspension settings. At the end of every 100 mile ride I do, I feel like I,ve spent the afternoon in prison, and I was the best looking guy there. LOL Still scratching my head, trying to figure out why my butt hurts so bad. I,m not sure if the seat is to wide, or if the foam is to stiff. I cann,t imagine having to ride this thing 3-4 days in a row, like a Quebec Gaspe trip. Anyone have an ideas ?
Interesting to see this quote, I have a stock 2007 Yamaha RTX ER, and I,ve set it to the softest suspension settings. At the end of every 100 mile ride I do, I feel like I,ve spent the afternoon in prison, and I was the best looking guy there. LOL Still scratching my head, trying to figure out why my butt hurts so bad. I,m not sure if the seat is to wide, or if the foam is to stiff. I cann,t imagine having to ride this thing 3-4 days in a row, like a Quebec Gaspe trip. Anyone have an ideas ?
Fullback
Expert
When I bought my RX1 in 03 I realized after that first year that I was gonna have to do something about the ride. I first long tracked it with rail extensions... didn't work. I then went to my TCat skid that's been in there ever since and haven't looked back. At the time Cat was doing very well in snow cross so I figured I'd give one of their skids a try and also had good recommendations from Mike Knapp on that type of skid. The trails weren't all that great as recently as last weekend but my back has never bothered me since using this skid. It's the main reason that I never looked at an Apex as I saw that owners were STILL complaining about the monos and I've had virtually zero problems with this skid. I'm hoping for something TOTALLY different this year to justify an upgrade in a year or 2. There is no way I am gonna be a 1st year buyer again. The cat frame and skid with a Yammi 4 stroke would be a win win in my book.
