2020 Sidewinder or Tcat?

[ROCKERDAN]

I have to agree with this post. Is it possible we have a new sled/chassis coming? Call it a Yamicat? Lol

I do wonder all these things myself.....But i would think Cats will be Cats as YAMs will be Yams, lol.

The big selloff pricing for 2020 sure points to a shake up. My dealer has told me he has heard certain things from his Rep that makes him believe things are already a done deal. What those exact things are is unknown.

I was thinking possibly Cat will release a NEW G2 procross chassie which may very well be 2s only.....And then YAM gets the current 4s chassie, which would be fine with me but YAM then updates the areas that we all have problems with....or who knows, maybe a new chassie both share again? I suppose if YAM actually does end up OWNING Cat, then the chassie would/could be owned and no longer shared.

At this point, heck alot of cool new stuff can happen....I guess it depends how much money(backing) YAM wants to dump into the new Cat/YAM sled North American company! That will go a long way to new model R&D going forward.

Dan

 

[74Nitro]

I do wonder all these things myself.....But i would think Cats will be Cats as YAMs will be Yams, lol.

The big selloff pricing for 2020 sure points to a shake up. My dealer has told me he has heard certain things from his Rep that makes him believe things are already a done deal. What those exact things are is unknown.

I was thinking possibly Cat will release a NEW G2 procross chassie which may very well be 2s only.....And then YAM gets the current 4s chassie, which would be fine with me but YAM then updates the areas that we all have problems with....or who knows, maybe a new chassie both share again? I suppose if YAM actually does end up OWNING Cat, then the chassie would/could be owned and no longer shared.

At this point, heck alot of cool new stuff can happen....I guess it depends how much money(backing) YAM wants to dump into the new Cat/YAM sled North American company! That will go a long way to new model R&D going forward.

Dan

Can't call it G2.
How about Procross 2.0

 

[ROCKERDAN]

Ok here’s the problems as I see it with the buy out or OEM agreement. I have been in the industrial OEM business for 30 + years so I’m experienced in these type of relationships. I was very excited when Yamaha and AC first started the Alliance the best in 4s engines was partnering with a very creative chassis company so when they start to evolve and mesh the collaboration sled could be leading edge. I’m sure both AC and Yamaha management told employees you will cooperate or you are out we want this to work so get along and help or we don’t need you. So both companies needed each other to try and turn things around and the Viper then Sidewinder came to market quickly. Unfortunately we never got a new chassis or a product that was new from the ground up so the OEM relationship never produced a leading edge new snowmobile. AC was in severe financial trouble and was acquired by Textron for AC dirt products and the snowmobile division was an ugly sister add on Textron would deal with later. The market became saturated with duplicate snowmobiles and Yamaha cut back on chassis orders which I’m sure didn’t impress Textron. The AC models didn’t sell well either so Textron eliminated the 3cylinder NA engine and only buys the 3 cylinder turbo engine for the Tcat which I’m sure didn’t impress Yamaha. Soooo where do we go for here? Textron doesn’t care what happens to Yamaha no reason to care and if Yamaha snow division folds Textron has one less competitor and could easily go it alone with their own 4s and 2s engines. Yamaha is at a crossroads either go it alone or purchase the snow division from Textron. Imo Textron doesn’t have a lot of value to Yamaha since the procross is dated and a new chassis has a high cost for new tooling. So imo Yamaha doesn’t have a lot of options for their snow division no matter what Yamaha does it will take a major investment to continue and succeed. Textron can milk their snow division cash cow, sell it to Yamaha or invest big bucks to be independent with their own engines and new chassis. Whatever happens from here doesn’t look good for either company at this time. Will there be a happy ending for Textron?....maybe. The ball is in Yamahas court to survive in the snow business and so far they’re not talking about the future so many consumers are leaving going with doo absorbing a lot of sales with their Ace NA and turbo. Yamaha needs to make a decision very soon to invest or pull out of the snow business their current direction is NOT working.

This sounds like every post on DT...."Yamaha will be gone soon"....While noone knows for sure, at this time there is alot more certainty IMO that YAM will be here for many years.

-Yamaha has been bidding on Cat for several yrs(My dealer believes Textron has now taken their last bid)
-Yamaha Emails domain just got changed, now all come from Yamaha USA Division(My dealer believes this is a sign)
-Cat has NO finance plans going forward
-Cat has no rebate plans going forward
-Cat is offering 2020 sleds at massive discounts and must be ordered by 15th.


These facts along with Cat chopping out all their small dealers, and telling my dealer if he wants to get out Cat will buy back all leftovers and parts, thru end of month ONLY but after that there will be NO rebates going forward on Non currents, so My dealer is out of Cat and happy to do so. And many Q's the Cat Rep has given to him.

Dan

 

[ROCKERDAN]

Can't call it G2.
How about Procross 2.0

I wasn't really sure....

I know Cat calls the new plastics(from '17) G2 plastics, so maybe a G2 procross chassie would be confusing?

I think in reality, YAM calls this chassie the SR-V chassie dont they? So maybe YAM can call it SR-V G2?

lol

I actually like the chassie, I could see a few things tweaked like a better system to connect tunnel, rather then all the rivets that loosen over time, and a better connection of the pyramid frame under fuel tank. Id love to see a normal rear bumper/snowflap design so you can grab the damn bumper easier! Also a better sway bar/end link that wont rub the plastics, and stronger tunnel near front for ice chunks so it does not bend up at vents, and a better design where that vulnerable coolant hose is.....among other smaller items, but the chassie itself handles so well, and the ergos of the riser/bars IMO is best on the market.

Dan

 

[whitedust1]

I do wonder all these things myself.....But i would think Cats will be Cats as YAMs will be Yams, lol.

The big selloff pricing for 2020 sure points to a shake up. My dealer has told me he has heard certain things from his Rep that makes him believe things are already a done deal. What those exact things are is unknown.

I was thinking possibly Cat will release a NEW G2 procross chassie which may very well be 2s only.....And then YAM gets the current 4s chassie, which would be fine with me but YAM then updates the areas that we all have problems with....or who knows, maybe a new chassie both share again? I suppose if YAM actually does end up OWNING Cat, then the chassie would/could be owned and no longer shared.

At this point, heck alot of cool new stuff can happen....I guess it depends how much money(backing) YAM wants to dump into the new Cat/YAM sled North American company! That will go a long way to new model R&D going forward.

Dan

Ok if we are to believe any of this when will the buy out be complete? Why would Textron and Yamaha not announce this as a done deal? Buy outs don’t drag on once an agreement is reached. What’s reasonable timing to you a day ,a week, a month, a year? Usually OEM sales reps don’t have access to inside information due to inside trading laws. Seems like the rep said what was convenient to close his order. I don’t doubt your dealer said all this to you but other high profile dealers are saying they don’t have any information on the future of Yamaha or Textron. Seems to me a buy out rumor like this has a limited half-life I would say a month would be very liberal timing or is not true.

 

[XP123]

This sounds like every post on DT...."Yamaha will be gone soon"....While noone knows for sure, at this time there is alot more certainty IMO that YAM will be here for many years.

-Yamaha has been bidding on Cat for several yrs(My dealer believes Textron has now taken their last bid)
-Yamaha Emails domain just got changed, now all come from Yamaha USA Division(My dealer believes this is a sign)
-Cat has NO finance plans going forward
-Cat has no rebate plans going forward
-Cat is offering 2020 sleds at massive discounts and must be ordered by 15th.


These facts along with Cat chopping out all their small dealers, and telling my dealer if he wants to get out Cat will buy back all leftovers and parts, thru end of month ONLY but after that there will be NO rebates going forward on Non currents, so My dealer is out of Cat and happy to do so. And many Q's the Cat Rep has given to him.

Dan

I hope this Yamaha buying out Cat rumor is true. I like the idea of a Yamaha Cat relationship with Yamaha calling the shots rather than Cat. I definitely don't feel that Cat or Yamaha leaving the sled biz is good for anyone especially us the consumer.

 

[Crazy Canuk]

Ok if we are to believe any of this when will the buy out be complete? Why would Textron and Yamaha not announce this as a done deal? Buy outs don’t drag on once an agreement is reached. What’s reasonable timing to you a day ,a week, a month, a year? Usually OEM sales reps don’t have access to inside information due to inside trading laws. Seems like the rep said what was convenient to close his order. I don’t doubt your dealer said all this to you but other high profile dealers are saying they don’t have any information on the future of Yamaha or Textron. Seems to me a buy out rumor like this has a limited half-life I would say a month would be very liberal timing or is not true.

Once an agreement in principal is reached - price wise, there are a ton of due diligence and legal hurdles to go through that takes tons of time before a deal is solidified and able to be announced to the general public. You don't want to preempt that in case sh*t hits the fan and then whoever announced looks like a complete douchebag - something that can impact share prices in a not so good way. This is sometimes compounded when you are pulling an existing product out of an ongoing business with shared assets, IP, etc.

I have no idea what is happening other than rumours I read on TY (otherwise I probably would have not Spring ordered a SW) but my experience with this type of thing tells me that the process can be very drawn out in some cases.

 

[number1kyster]

Does Cat build their sleds in the same building as the ATV's and side by side?

 

[Winder_506]

I put deposit down for SRX. $19700 including freight, PDI, warranty, cover, ..... before tax out the door.
Did anyone else put deposit down I'm interested to see some real numbers to compare.
Cheers
Ontario

Same on my ltx le, 2020. Gave me good money for my trade tho and included some extras, belt of my choice and a trail pass for next year (250$) first service for free plus I’ll get a hat and tuke from them. Sleds are expensive but we sled from usually mid to late November through end of April. Have even been on sled in May a few times and this year looks good for that again here. Western New Brunswick.

 

[Crossfire12]

Textron just bought cat, can’t see them letting it go already, YAMAHA ????

 

[Mototown]

Textron owned Polaris at one time , they sold it to ...

 

[VX1R]

Textron owned Polaris at one time , they sold it to ...

Back to a group of Polaris investors.

 

[Mototown]

And Yamaha has befits of buying cat to , factory to build sleds , and patents on chassis

 

[sideshowBob]

When Cat will only sell you a sled on spring order...something is brewing...could be a number of things, but definitely is not business as usual.

 

[jonlafon1]

Textron owned Polaris at one time , they sold it to ...

Yea and what scares me is they did no good as far as Polaris is concerned. At least that’s what I have heard and know.