stoutner
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
Stock for Stock they will be very close. Hole shot will probably win the race for either sled if they are both stock. Problem for the Apex is it costs too much money to get extra HP. The Dragon can run about 165 HP for about 650 bucks extra. Can't do that with an Apex unless you throw in some Nitrous.
journeyman
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I wonder how they would match up after each machine has 10,000-12,000 miles on them? Maybe still a good race only after the 2 stroke Dragon just came out of the shop with a freshened up motor like pistons and rings, etc.....I should know, I just did that to my Viper...LOL!!
70superbee
Expert
Last winter, well the end of winter my buddy and I were on lake gogebic and ran into 3 guys from Minn. and they had a 800 dragon, the new 800 motor in a 600 dragon body. 1" track studded and an apex studded and a 800 crossfire studded and not stock. The dragon is pretty fast on good hard pack. But If you are not on good snow and he is you will lose. We ran a few runs both of us on good hardpack we were even for a little bit and my attak pulled away and that was the last I saw of the sled.
They said they were up doing some testing on it.
The apex I beat every run except 1 time. and the poo was even with that sled all the time. They said the apex was stock.
If the production sled runs this good people should be happy.
Rich
They said they were up doing some testing on it.
The apex I beat every run except 1 time. and the poo was even with that sled all the time. They said the apex was stock.
If the production sled runs this good people should be happy.
Rich
RTXs
Pro
Stoutner's all excited cause he's got a new control module thingy thats gonna make his Dragon fly...we'll see. I'm taking the ulmer clutch kit off my sled so I hope to see a top end improvement (only hits 112 on the DM), i can't hook up that well out the hole anyway. Actually I hope your sled is fast as heck cause i'm gettin tired of the tank
stoutner
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
RTXs said:
What control module thingy???
Big ride Saturday...You in?
stoutner
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
journeyman said:
No doubt my Dragon will need new rings and pistons maybe after 4500 miles but my Apex didn't hold up too well either. Every moving part on my Apex was whipped after two seasons...other than the motor. Dragon will probably be the same way.
stoutner
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
tundra said:
Yep, That Apex sounds real stock....lol
journeyman
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stoutner said:
Is that from riding or racing? Just wondering if that's you in the avatar photo. Both my avatars are photos I took of buddies. This one is a friend on his 2007 ATTAK in the UP and on the TY 2 stroke side, it was also that same day, of my other friend on his 175HP BB 780 Viper. My sled is too boring to use. LOL!!
As for the rings, etc VS. the chassis.......can't agree more. The Yamaha engine will last ALONG time with proper maintaining but no one can say the rest of the skid will. There is no doubt that there are some serious trade offs. Weight vs. Longevity I would call it. That's what I tell everybody that is curious about 4 strokes that haven't ridden one. The added weight is about the only downfall.........ooops and of course mods are EXPENSIVE!!! Some people care about that and some don't I guess. Good luck with the Dragon. It will be interesting to see if they turn out positive for Polaris. They have been seriously needing a boost in their TOP OF THE LINE for some time now.
SledFreak
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stoutner said:Stock for Stock they will be very close. Hole shot will probably win the race for either sled if they are both stock. Problem for the Apex is it costs too much money to get extra HP. The Dragon can run about 165 HP for about 650 bucks extra. Can't do that with an Apex unless you throw in some Nitrous.
They are only 143hp according to DTR and pretty much a dog because they are so fat in stock forum.
A modded air box PCIII/igntion controller, oil change and drag and fly weights and a gear change. Total of 850.00 bucks and it will spank your dragon, especially on the top end....
stoutner
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
SledFreak said:
Yes that is me on my old Apex in the Avatar.
Sledfreak,
I'm guessing I might have a pretty good Idea as I had my Apex for 3 years and also drag raced it as you can see. I'm pretty sure your $850 in mods on your Apex will not equal the $850 in mods on a Dragon.
First off, a power commander on an Apex is very little help. I ran a Boondocker on mine and also had it dyno'd. Apex fuel is very close in stock form. You can gain a few ponies with the airbox mod and the PC but you still will be less than 160. Clutching helps...no doubt.
$850 in mods on a Dragon gets you a pipe, PCIII, and some clutching stuff. It also gets you about 164 HP on a sled that weighs 50 lbs less.
Frankly though, I'm not worried about being the fastest guy out there. There are only 10 or 12 guys in North America that can claim they have the fastest sleds going....and you and me ain't one of them.
I'm not as biased as you might think. I loved my Apex. It was a great sled for the most part. It's time has passed though. It is 4 year old technology that was never really updated. I'll probably go back to Yamaha in a couple of years if they come out with a sled that can steer properly, doesn't have a boat anchor in the front end, and provides some type of wind protection.
P.S. The Dragon they dyno'd for the shootout came in at about 145 HP...The Apex came in at about 147 HP....The Dragon was quicker at the shootout as you know. Neither sled was broken In.
...
tundra
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
I agree with you, 850 $ in mod for a apex is nothing spectacular in term of HP Gain. But for 200 $ (Can) you can make a nice clutch setup that will destroy a Stock clutched Apex and will make the D8 owner think about.
If am gonna have another sled than a Apex right now, would be a D8 for sure. In mountain form, the D8 power (or feeling) is deceiving, but it get the job done.
Im only waiting for my friend to find a way to pass me. And am stock, except that is a RX-1 transformed in a Apex, aftermarket suspension, Home Made Exhaust and A good clutch setup (made by the D8 owner
)
They are real close sled in term of Perf. from what i saw.
If am gonna have another sled than a Apex right now, would be a D8 for sure. In mountain form, the D8 power (or feeling) is deceiving, but it get the job done.
Im only waiting for my friend to find a way to pass me. And am stock, except that is a RX-1 transformed in a Apex, aftermarket suspension, Home Made Exhaust and A good clutch setup (made by the D8 owner
)They are real close sled in term of Perf. from what i saw.
SledFreak
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stoutner said:
I agree, the PCIII does nothing to an Apex in stock forum and does add a little when the airbox is modded. But I said, add the igntion controler which adds alot to the performance to that machine and change to a performance oil, plugs and you are at 160+ hp. Add some clutching and a gear change and it will run. I AM GOING TO SAY THIS ONCE... Weight don't mean #*$&@ on snow, especially in a drag race. On ice it, the weight will shows it's true colours and the guy riding it, better be light or all of that is thrown out the window. On snow, it's about who gets traction. The Apex sucks in soft snow and I believe you already know this...
If you want to talk shootout we can.. You know it and I know it, the Apex out of the box is slow, because of how tight those motors are in stock form. They allowed CAT to break in there Turbo for the event... Even a 2 stroke runs alot stronger in tight form compared to a 4. Again the track conditions did not warrant the Apex to show well as it would have in harder ground. Just like it did last year..... I do not put much faith into the shootout, since evey year, there seems to be some cheating going on.
The 145 hp is still lower than the claimed 154-160 that Polaris said it had. The Apex is 150+, once broken in. I have read all of the info on DTR about the 800 motor... It's very fat on top end, which is killing the hp up top.
This of course is all bench racing... Hopfully, I will run one this season that is tuned, so I can compare and will display the results..
Good Luck with your ride, since I think if Yamaha releases a new sled this year, it will be a force to be reckoned with, just like when the Apex came out...
SledFreak
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tundra said:
I agree.... I still believe the dragon won't have the top end.
stoutner
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
SledFreak said:
When do you really get to run top end anyway? The reality is that all of these sleds are very close when stock. I never thought the Apex was a big top end sled. When me and my buddies run the lakes on all different sleds, they all seem to stay pretty even around 100 mph give or take. Even the older 800HO ski doos seem to keep up for the most part.
You want to pull away you have to add N2O, S/C, or turbo on a 4 stroke. I have yet to see a naturally aspirated yamaha 4 stroke with more than 180 hp. I have seen many 2 stroke 600, 700, and 800's well over 200 HP without power adders. It's a lot less expensive to get big HP out of a 2 stroke.
Our sleds are trail sleds...not racers.
PS Don't knock that Dragon until you ride it. It is really a nice sled with a lot of power. Mid range and throttle response is very similar to an Apex. All of my buddies that have ridden it seem to like it. I like it a lot.
cwhite3
Veteran
My buddy has an 09 dragon 800. I have an 07 rtx and we lined up last weekend. We were even for the first 50 yards then I went by him pretty easy.
