Back to the Apex

[20/80]

Assuming proper maintenance:
There are lots of reason, the obvious is the motors and associated electronics, then you have the tried, tested, beat to wee drivetrain that NEVER fails, then you have all the wiring that is properly loomed. There was a notice about a wire rub possible issue with the apex back in the day and it was such a remote chance of it happening but they put out a tsb. On my sidewinder the wires coming out of the fuse box all lay right on the metal bracket, unprotected.

The chassis is heavy but so strong, I ride mine hard and jump a lot and still amazed at how strong it is.

The clutches and 8DN belt just work....practically forever.

I had aftermarket ZX2 rear suspension(the plastic no maintenance one) and so I never had any of the mono issues. My sled for almost a decade was work on it in the summer, do the maintenance/upgrades, etc then ride all year and never look at anything mechanical. Oh and yeah it was stupid freaking fast too! Boosted with a turbo or SC I owned them both and never a break down that I could blame Yamaha for.

I own a 17 SW and its still in the shop getting a new motor with 300 miles on it, ruined my season, and I basically have no faith it will run this year. I need 2000 miles of turn key to start building confidence in it. Now I'm looking at driveshaft bearing, oil tank leaking, roll over valve delete, rear wheel kit, among other mods that a 17K sled should not need.

My crazy modded apex I crashed would crush this modded SW in every way. The apex handled better, was faster, sounded better, and more reliable. It was within 15lbs weight wise too, SW's are not lightweights!

Ride what makes you happy in the end, it appears the writing is on the wall for me and what makes me happy. Long live the Tapex! (turbo apex is THE perfect sled for ME)

Well said.. something that is kinda hard to find on a Vid is a Sindwinder and a turbo Apex lining up that are running around the same hp.

 

[74Nitro]

Assuming proper maintenance:
There are lots of reason, the obvious is the motors and associated electronics, then you have the tried, tested, beat to wee drivetrain that NEVER fails, then you have all the wiring that is properly loomed. There was a notice about a wire rub possible issue with the apex back in the day and it was such a remote chance of it happening but they put out a tsb. On my sidewinder the wires coming out of the fuse box all lay right on the metal bracket, unprotected.

The chassis is heavy but so strong, I ride mine hard and jump a lot and still amazed at how strong it is.

The clutches and 8DN belt just work....practically forever.

I had aftermarket ZX2 rear suspension(the plastic no maintenance one) and so I never had any of the mono issues. My sled for almost a decade was work on it in the summer, do the maintenance/upgrades, etc then ride all year and never look at anything mechanical. Oh and yeah it was stupid freaking fast too! Boosted with a turbo or SC I owned them both and never a break down that I could blame Yamaha for.

I own a 17 SW and its still in the shop getting a new motor with 300 miles on it, ruined my season, and I basically have no faith it will run this year. I need 2000 miles of turn key to start building confidence in it. Now I'm looking at driveshaft bearing, oil tank leaking, roll over valve delete, rear wheel kit, among other mods that a 17K sled should not need.

My crazy modded apex I crashed would crush this modded SW in every way. The apex handled better, was faster, sounded better, and more reliable. It was within 15lbs weight wise too, SW's are not lightweights!

Ride what makes you happy in the end, it appears the writing is on the wall for me and what makes me happy. Long live the Tapex! (turbo apex is THE perfect sled for ME)

Don't really see the relevance in comparing an Apex with an aftermarket rear skid and aftermarket turbo.
In addition, while you were very unlucky in getting an engine with problems, it is an all-Yamaha engine, so not sure what your point is there.
Obviously the Apex has a cult-like following that will live on for a while yet, but the fact remains that if it was such an awesome sled by todays standards it would still be selling huge numbers.
But it isn't. So they quit making it.

 

[74Nitro]

When the Apex came out in 2006 I thought it was a pretty cool sled, and indeed it was. It held its own against all competitors at the time.
In typical Yamaha fashion, they failed to advance it fast enough. Finally, in 2011, the faithful Apex crowd received some much wanted updates. However, in my opinion the changes didn't go far enough. An already unreliable exhaust actually became more unreliable not to mention more expensive to fix. The horsepower gains were very modest. I would have rather seen them add 50-100cc's and forget about the EXUP. Power steering is very nice, but was just there to help mask the problem of being to heavy, which Yamaha didn't seem too concerned about.
I think Yamaha made the right move in building together with Cat and now have a very formidable machine with the Winder. My only complaint with the Winder is that they have taken too long to address some of the issues, like the chaincase for example.

 

[RobX-1]

but the fact remains that if it was such an awesome sled by todays standards it would still be selling huge numbers.
But it isn't. So they quit making it.

That could be one way to look to at it. I prefer to look at it this way and I suspect so do others and maybe that's why you feel there is a cult-like following . It's not that the Apex is no longer an awesome sled by today's standards and wasn't selling huge numbers and that's why they quit making it, Yamaha just built an awesome reliable snowmobile that didn't require it to be replaced every 2-3 years. That is why I still own my 03 RX-1 with 11,000 miles, 08 LTX Apex GT with close to 15,000 miles, and an 18 Apex XTX with approx 6,000 miles. When they're built to last, one doesn't replace them that often which can and will lead to reduced sales but that shouldn't be a knock against the Apex.

 

[20/80]

If the Sidewinder happens to come out in a pure Yamaha cutting edge chassis with no Cat DNA a cult following would be started and sales would sky rocket for Yamaha for the Sidewinder, but till Yamaha parts way's with Cat crap Apex is the front runner in my opinion for Yamaha and the YamaCat Sidewinder will allways be riding on the Apex's shirt tails trying to be as reliable and a performance legacy but just will not happen because Yamaha is still in bed with Cat crap.

 

[biffdotorg]

By not replacing the name and making small changes, they also kept the resale value up. As buyers were always comparing them to the current model year.

This is nothing new for Yamaha, they do it with other products as well. I think it's odd, but it seems to be working for them.

In dirt bikes and sportbikes the same models still exist from an easy 10 years back. Same with their sportboats. The Yamaha AR210 and 242LS have been around for years.

Now when the Sidewinder was finally released in the spring of 2016 for spring order 2017's, we finally had a different sled to compare to. And the Apex value dropped initially. Now that it has been out a few years, Yamaha may be due to release another 160ish HP trail sled. As many who realized they don't need 208hp, will flock back to a mid-powered trail sled. Just fast enough to smoke the average 600, but not overwhelming for trail riding.

 

[Motorhead]

Don't really see the relevance in comparing an Apex with an aftermarket rear skid and aftermarket turbo.
In addition, while you were very unlucky in getting an engine with problems, it is an all-Yamaha engine, so not sure what your point is there.
Obviously the Apex has a cult-like following that will live on for a while yet, but the fact remains that if it was such an awesome sled by todays standards it would still be selling huge numbers.
But it isn't. So they quit making it.

Yep I have to agree with you. And Kinger, I have been following you and your sled builds for quite some time now. That last Apex really had many aftermarket WOW factors, paint, power and suspension , all rolled in to a one of a kind pure Animal, just wow again!! And the motor problems on your new Sidewinder project and a lost season because of it, well that just sucked and sucked and sucked again!

But coming from someone who has had the RX1 and Turbo Attak, and has traded off with my buddies LTX Apex, the Sidewinder and it’s power, ride and handling are in it’s own class. I also went for the best shock package available in 17, with the LTX-LE, and have tried other sidewinders with the lesser shock package to find that, well the LE shocks are superior! Period.

In short, I really don’t care who rides what, but am interested in keeping facts straights.

Bottom line, Apex has been a very dependable sled that has been outdated for the past many years with it’s front and rear suspension.

Sidewinder is a much more maintenance demanding sled, but the front and rear suspension and that stock turbo motor, which is too easy to add hp to, is and has been in a class of it’s own since 2017.

So surf the wave of the future and keep a good eye on your Yamacat, or ride your dependable Dinosaur.

In most cases, if you have both, the Sidewinder will not sit, unless it’s down for maintenance!
Though I logged on 2500 miles last season, problem free season for me! Gonna try and make sure that happens again with my Fall time maintenance list!!!!
Very hard to ride that old sit down style after riding my Winder! And at 260 hp it is still a very mild tune that just fricken flies.

 

[20/80]

I feel that when I'm trail riding or planning on a trip north, when riding my Apex DINOSAUR(last model put out in 2018) I really feel confident that my machine is going to be trouble free and will get me home time after time, there is nothing tormenting my mind wondering if my chain case is ready to explode or if I stop for a minute to talk that my machine will over heat and not restart, constant steam coming up by the handle bars from light snow steaming up my windshield or if that last bump bent my tunnel and the list goes on, paying 18 grand plus for a Sidewinder there should not be no issues and that buyer should feel confident running that machine trouble free for years with regular maintenance, a lot of winder buyers have lost out on our short winters due to shop time and back order parts, still there is a lot of hype about this painted Cat sled for some reason,.... but they are so fast and easy to tune...wow

 

[Teamblue4]

Yep I have to agree with you. And Kinger, I have been following you and your sled builds for quite some time now. That last Apex really had many aftermarket WOW factors, paint, power and suspension , all rolled in to a one of a kind pure Animal, just wow again!! And the motor problems on your new Sidewinder project and a lost season because of it, well that just sucked and sucked and sucked again!

But coming from someone who has had the RX1 and Turbo Attak, and has traded off with my buddies LTX Apex, the Sidewinder and it’s power, ride and handling are in it’s own class. I also went for the best shock package available in 17, with the LTX-LE, and have tried other sidewinders with the lesser shock package to find that, well the LE shocks are superior! Period.

In short, I really don’t care who rides what, but am interested in keeping facts straights.

Bottom line, Apex has been a very dependable sled that has been outdated for the past many years with it’s front and rear suspension.

Sidewinder is a much more maintenance demanding sled, but the front and rear suspension and that stock turbo motor, which is too easy to add hp to, is and has been in a class of it’s own since 2017.

So surf the wave of the future and keep a good eye on your Yamacat, or ride your dependable Dinosaur.

In most cases, if you have both, the Sidewinder will not sit, unless it’s down for maintenance!
Though I logged on 2500 miles last season, problem free season for me! Gonna try and make sure that happens again with my Fall time maintenance list!!!!
Very hard to ride that old sit down style after riding my Winder! And at 260 hp it is still a very mild tune that just fricken flies.

In most cases, if you have both, the Sidewinder will not sit, Go back and read page 1

 

[STAIN]

If the Sidewinder happens to come out in a pure Yamaha cutting edge chassis with no Cat DNA a cult following would be started and sales would sky rocket for Yamaha for the Sidewinder

We have been waiting a LONG time for a chassis from Mother Yamaha. They didn't(haven't) delivered, that's why they teamed with Cat to get back in the ball game.

 

[yamadoo]

In My limited experience The LE winder I rode was superior to my Apex XTX,Viper or Vector. (BTX as well)I am not sure why all the winder bashing, may be because I haven’t lost riding time 2/2 mechanical failure as some have.

I Loved the riding position, ride, handling and power. I remember thinking refined smooth power Now I can’t answer what it would be like or worth in ten years but the day I rode it I was impressed.

I will likely pick one up in a few years. With my good Yamacat Viper experience I am not as reluctant as some.

 

[thor452]

I do own both a sidewinder ltx le and a 2012 apex XTX. when I got the apex XTX it was an upgrade from my GT and I thought it was the greatest sled on snow and at the time it probably was I could ride harder and longer with little to no fatigue it didn't ring my bell if it ever bottomed out like the gt would almost every trip it had noticeable more power and I loved it so much I supercharged it instead of upgrading. I loved it even more with the supercharger I could pass everything but a gas station. it handled well cornered on rails and had power steering to boot. however I put $1700.00 into it before it hit the snow for its first season just to make it what I felt was acceptable ridding condition or if you will min it should have been from the factory. I continued to invest more into it over the years and the added the super charger used to it all told I had $25,000 invested including the purchase price of 13,700 to make it be what I felt was the perfect trail monster for me. that lasted two seasons with the SC and they were not trouble free in fact 3/4 of the way through the second season the SC lost oil and it went down first time I ever had to call for a trailer riding Yamaha (not that it was Yamahas fault the SC went down). I removed the SC and it was back up and running. I decided that I wanted the power back but I wanted it with a warranty from the factory so I decided to buy the sidewinder but I kept the apex because I was not sure if I could trust the "Cat DNA" or if I would even be happy with it. I brought both sleds on every trip the last two years and told myself I would ride both and decide what I preferred. the sidewinder got a set of hand guards I grip screw in studs and cat skis all in I spent $500.00 making it how I like it I am certain I will keep adding but from here it is for fun not need. it has close to the same HP as the SC apex had and with a small tune it will have more it is unreal the way it handles the terrain on even the XTX I would jar my spine and have a sore back up in my mid to upper area but it was nothing like the low back issues from the mono. on the sidewinder I have yet to have a sore spine at all. I have rode harder and longer than even the XTX it just doesn't jar the spine at all. the power is more smooth the seating positon from the factory is great and with suspension adjustment and different skis it handles on rails as well. I have forced myself to ride the apex a few times and every time I do even with all the upgrades I did to it, it just feels like so much less of a sled still fun to ride but given the choice I take the sidewinder every time. My son is very happy to ride the apex as it is now almost solely his sled and is a huge upgrade from his 1991 Phazer. so I am still glad I kept it for him. Is the sidewinder without issues? No not at all it took me 5 belts to finally figure out how to make them last over 500 miles but thanks to this site we got it going great. I also had to remove the fuse box and do a better job of protecting the wires and thanks to this site I knew it was a concern and fixed it before it was a problem. my chain case has had no issues so far thankfully and because of this site I know that when I do my fall maintenance I will be addressing the issue and because of this site I know exactly what to do for a no cost repair. and the bearing on the drive shaft so far I haven't had issue that I am aware of but again because of this site I know there is potential for an issue there and I will be checking it and most likely either way do the set screw solution to it that is an almost zero cost repair. on the apex I had to do something about hyfax wear the solution was expensive duponts that in that sled wore at the rate of standard hyfax in other sleds or oversized wheels and the came at a price too. I did both eventually and am very happy with that result but spent close to $300 to make it work correctly. the apex is know for the bearing by the speed sensor to get rusty and fail prematurely and take out the speed sensor again thanks to this site a little zero cost PM keeps it from failing but many did have a ride end from it who didn't know and is why I mention it. the apex has donuts that still fail and if left unchecked crack headers that the common person has no resources to have them fixed because they are titanium and the replacement is in the 3000 range there or aftermarket for around 1500 either way expensive repair. the apex has rails that are prone to cracking and the apex has a suspension that if you don't spend money to have shocks re-valve or a star suspension kit or something of the sort it rides like a lumber wagon but can handle its own it the rough stuff well. So is either sled perfect no is one more reliable then the other not really the apex has been around so long the we forget we all learned how to make it reliable because of this site or life experience with it. the benefit of it being almost the same sled for 13 years and even longer if you count the rx1 that was very similar in many was is it seems more reliable then it is because we all know how to make them that way. Bottom line choice between the two for me starting new bone stock with both I will have less into the sidewinder and have factory reliable power by not adding aftermarket SC/turbo and a more comfortable sled. FOR ME !! the sidewinder is my choice. To each their own but the fact is no sled is perfect or deserves God like status I can find you just as many horror stories about the apex as the sidewinder. I also think it would be nice if Yamaha would make a stand in the 150-180 hp market to keep more market share and fill the want for the Yamaha faithful.

 

[whitedust1]

Apex is outdated in every way. A great sled in it’s day but someday Apex users will need to consider alternative replacement sleds. The Sidewinder is the logical choice for the hp hungry rider but Yamaha has vacated the 150 to 165 hp class of riders. Skidoo offers the 900t Renegade 150hp class sled and it has been very successful and was the first 2020 sled to be built and shipped. It seems unthinkable that Yamaha did all the missionary marketing for 4s sled acceptance sold the heck out of the Apex line up and then abandoned that product niche since 2011. Very true an Apex replacement model would sell like hot cakes but just has not happened. Current model choices are step up to the heavy Sidewinder increase hp modern riding position or the doo 900t Renegade at 150hp rider forward lighter model. If you don’t like the SW Yamaha has nothing for ya. Very sad but true.

 

[20/80]

I don't think the newer Apex is outdated in every way, mine is running the same fox shocks as some models in the pro cross, the new single shot rear rides pretty darn good when dialed in with the updated shock, seating position is about half way between rider forward and older traditional seating and suits me and many more just fine on long runs, the electronics tach and speedo on the apex is by far ahead of what's bolted to a Sidewinder/Cat chassis, try looking and reading your speedo at -10 first thing in the morning on a Viper/Sidewinder, the newer Apex's are a very high tech sled, the Yamacats has a way's to go to achieve that, the pro cross looks like they were built and assembled at Walmart, only the Yamaha engine in the Sidewinder/Viper/ Cat is high tech, you could bolt that winder engine in a lawn tractor and go over 100mph+ in about 6 seconds, I hope Yamaha moves away from Cat and builds there own chassis again, let Tracker have all of Cat.

 

[maim]

i have ridden a side winder at a demo ride when they came out and it was not too bad. the thing that keeps me on an apex is the smoothness of the motor. i have carpel tunnel bad in my right hand and it is in my left as well. i can ride my apex for longer than i can my brothers 2013 venture tripple and bothers is set up very similar. there is a harmonic at cruising speed on the tripple that my hand goes numb at in about 1hr straight riding. need a longer ride on a side winder to see if that is true on it as well as demo only gave me about 20min on it. heck i can ride the phazer longer than the venture with less pain but i move around a lot more on it.