Boost / Fuel Octane Figures

[HAMMER]

Octane Boosters Link 1 http://www.europeancarweb.com/tech/0503ec_techboost

Octane Boosters Link 2 http://www.ducatimeccanica.com/gas.html

Gasoline Digest (Page 1) http://www.idavette.net/hib/fuel/index.htm

Gasoline Digest (Page 2) http://www.idavette.net/hib/fuel/page2.htm

 

[woodsrider]

I can't tell from your picture if you had any detonation. How did the tips of the electrodes look?

 

[HAMMER]

Not my plugs....(the picture of the plugs came from a Subaru WRX forum)

 

[slymax]

Guess I'll stick to the Av

 

[BlgsRX-1mtn]

Not my plugs....(the picture of the plugs came from a Subaru WRX forum)

Hammer,

You wouldn't by any chance have a link to the thread would you? Like woodsrider said; I too am having a hard time telling if there was detonation. I would like to personally talk to this guy about his experiences with the Torco concentrate. I have talked back and forth with the Torco techs and they swear the concentrate is just that; super concentrated race fuel rather than an off the shelf octane booster.

Like I said; if it has good protection it would save me alot of hassle with hauling 7 qts of concentrate vs. 35 gals of 110 race fuel 10 miles in to Cooke City for a week long vacation then trying to find a place to store it. Not to mention shipping on 5 gals of concentrate is cheaper than a 55 gal drum of 110 race fuel.

With the numbers claimed, I talked the the chief chemist at the refinery I work at and he said; "It is most likely a blend of Nitration grade toluene and tetra-ethyl lead" (both of these have a 130+ Road octane rating).

I also noticed in the ducati site that there is also advice against running Av-Gas. :?

Here's the quote; "
We asked Sunoco’s Wurth about using aviation fuel in an automobile engine. He was emphatic when he said, "Don’t do it. Even though Sunoco is a major producer of aviation fuel, this fuel is specifically blended for aircraft engines. Aircraft operate under very different conditions than automobiles, and the fuel requirements are quite different as well. Aircraft engines generally use very small pistons and run within a very narrow rpm range. There’s no need for transient throttle response in an airplane because after the pilot does the initial engine run-up, the throttle is set in one position and the rpm doesn’t normally change until landing. Also, airplanes fly where the air is cold and thin, and the atmospheric pressure is low. These are not even close to the conditions your street machine will see on the ground. Also, since most piston-driven aircraft cruise at 3,000rpm or so, the burn rate of aviation gas is much too slow for any high-performance automotive applications."


Jim

 

[HAMMER]

 

[slymax]

Another thing to consider. If your compression doesn't require a high octane fuel, you actually lose hp by running higher octane than needed. Personally I would err on that side of the equation myself, what's a few hp when you have over 200 ?

 

[Travis Moore]

Not my plugs....(the picture of the plugs came from a Subaru WRX forum)

Hammer,

You wouldn't by any chance have a link to the thread would you? Like woodsrider said; I too am having a hard time telling if there was detonation. I would like to personally talk to this guy about his experiences with the Torco concentrate. I have talked back and forth with the Torco techs and they swear the concentrate is just that; super concentrated race fuel rather than an off the shelf octane booster.

Like I said; if it has good protection it would save me alot of hassle with hauling 7 qts of concentrate vs. 35 gals of 110 race fuel 10 miles in to Cooke City for a week long vacation then trying to find a place to store it. Not to mention shipping on 5 gals of concentrate is cheaper than a 55 gal drum of 110 race fuel.

With the numbers claimed, I talked the the chief chemist at the refinery I work at and he said; "It is most likely a blend of Nitration grade toluene and tetra-ethyl lead" (both of these have a 130+ Road octane rating).

I also noticed in the ducati site that there is also advice against running Av-Gas. :?

Here's the quote; "
We asked Sunoco’s Wurth about using aviation fuel in an automobile engine. He was emphatic when he said, "Don’t do it. Even though Sunoco is a major producer of aviation fuel, this fuel is specifically blended for aircraft engines. Aircraft operate under very different conditions than automobiles, and the fuel requirements are quite different as well. Aircraft engines generally use very small pistons and run within a very narrow rpm range. There’s no need for transient throttle response in an airplane because after the pilot does the initial engine run-up, the throttle is set in one position and the rpm doesn’t normally change until landing. Also, airplanes fly where the air is cold and thin, and the atmospheric pressure is low. These are not even close to the conditions your street machine will see on the ground. Also, since most piston-driven aircraft cruise at 3,000rpm or so, the burn rate of aviation gas is much too slow for any high-performance automotive applications."


Jim

I've personally tested Torco octane booster and it does nothing. This wasent just SOTP testing, it was looking at how much timing was being pulled from a eninge that uses very accurate knock sensors...the timing being pulled at a given boost level was the same with our without Torco. It does nothing other then ruin your plugs...

As far as aviation engines using small pistons, give me 10 minutes and i'll prove that wrong, also..

 

[Travis Moore]

Here is a picture of a very common airplane cylinder and piston:

 

[BlgsRX-1mtn]

Here is a picture of a very common airplane cylinder and piston:

Travis, after reading that quote I thought it was more than likely backwards. Most planes I have been around all had long stokes and large bores. This explains slower revs that AV is designed for. The product I am asking about is not an octane booster it is (according to the guy I have been e-mailing back and forth with and their web site) a concentrated version of their Mach series leaded race fuel.

This is copied directly from Torco race fuels web site. Is this the same stuff you tested?

MACH SERIES LEADED ACCELERATOR, RACE FUEL CONCENTRATE

Blend the Leaded concentrate with 100 low lead aviation fuels to get up to 112-octane race fuel that really flies!!!! This concentrate when blended with a race fuel makes a Nitrous fuel to fit many applications. The Leaded concentrate makes up to a 106-octane race fuel when blended properly. Plus giving the needed lubricity of LEAD!!!

I know how octane works and how it is achieved (I blend gasoline & Av-Gas for a living). You can achieve what they claim (I verified with our own head chemist). I'm just looking to see if anyone has personal experience with this product. I'm not trying to argue either just trying to get all the facts.

Hell, I might buy a qt and blend per their instructions and have our lab run it on our ASTM certified knock engines. This will give a certified octane rating and see if they are making false claims.

Thanks, Jim

 

[Travis Moore]

Here is a picture of a very common airplane cylinder and piston:

Travis, after reading that quote I thought it was more than likely backwards. Most planes I have been around all had long stokes and large bores. This explains slower revs that AV is designed for. The product I am asking about is not an octane booster it is (according to the guy I have been e-mailing back and forth with and their web site) a concentrated version of their Mach series leaded race fuel.

This is copied directly from Torco race fuels web site. Is this the same stuff you tested?

MACH SERIES LEADED ACCELERATOR, RACE FUEL CONCENTRATE

Blend the Leaded concentrate with 100 low lead aviation fuels to get up to 112-octane race fuel that really flies!!!! This concentrate when blended with a race fuel makes a Nitrous fuel to fit many applications. The Leaded concentrate makes up to a 106-octane race fuel when blended properly. Plus giving the needed lubricity of LEAD!!!

I know how octane works and how it is achieved (I blend gasoline & Av-Gas for a living). You can achieve what they claim (I verified with our own head chemist). I'm just looking to see if anyone has personal experience with this product. I'm not trying to argue either just trying to get all the facts.

Hell, I might buy a qt and blend per their instructions and have our lab run it on our ASTM certified knock engines. This will give a certified octane rating and see if they are making false claims.

Thanks, Jim

Yes, it's the same stuff i have tried. Torco fuels are of a VERY low quality and i would expect the same consistancy from the rest of there products also.

 

[HAMMER]

The product I am asking about is not an octane booster it is (according to the guy I have been e-mailing back and forth with and their web site) a concentrated version of their Mach series leaded race fuel.

So if I email Pepsi and ask them if their product is better than Coke you think they will say "dang right, best product ever put in a can, we tested it in our own lab and verified it's exactly 100% better than Coke"

I might buy a qt and blend per their instructions and have our lab run it on our ASTM certified knock engines.

Excellent !!! Mix up a batch of 50/50 Premium/Aviaton (I think that's the most common mix) and test that also while your at it to compare.

The reason I’m running a little more octane than I probably need is for that day I’m in handlebar deep powder, pushing a 3ft wave of it out front, max engine rpm, 10lbs boost, track howling under me, hood covered completely, engine temp 180++ under that hood, and I’m only doing about 5mph ground speed. That’s when your octane will be tested.

 

[Jack_Shaft]

Hell, I might buy a qt and blend per their instructions and have our lab run it on our ASTM certified knock engines. This will give a certified octane rating and see if they are making false claims.
Thanks, Jim

Jim. Please... please do this! Seeing as you have the resources to do this kind of test, it would be a MAJOR asset to those of us on this board who run turbos.

May I also suggest:

50/50 - Race/Premium 92 Octane
50/50 - Race/Regular 87 Octane
50/50 - 100LL/Premium 92 Octane
50/50 - 100LL/Regular 87 Octane

and by race fuel, I am referring to C12/C14.

PLEASE do this for us and get Mr. Sled to record your results in a table on this page.

-JS

 

[BlgsRX-1mtn]

Hell, I might buy a qt and blend per their instructions and have our lab run it on our ASTM certified knock engines. This will give a certified octane rating and see if they are making false claims.
Thanks, Jim

Jim. Please... please do this! Seeing as you have the resources to do this kind of test, it would be a MAJOR asset to those of us on this board who run turbos.

May I also suggest:

50/50 - Race/Premium 92 Octane
50/50 - Race/Regular 87 Octane
50/50 - 100LL/Premium 92 Octane
50/50 - 100LL/Regular 87 Octane

and by race fuel, I am referring to C12/C14.

PLEASE do this for us and get Mr. Sled to record your results in a table on this page.

-JS

JS, 92 isn't available here because of the higher alttitude requiring less octane. We don't make 87 for our local market either but we do have some stuff we send via pipline to SLC and the west coast (I'll have to figure out what tank it is in. Our 87 to the local rack is a metered blend of 91 & 85.5 octane. I check with the local performance shops and see how small of quantity of Race Fuel I can get. 100 LL is not a problem.

These results might take a while to get (If the tester will even do them). If I can get the tests done; I'll get the tank samples prior to a blend giving me the oldest blended/certified sample there is for a worse case scenario.

 

[woodsrider]

Actually for the guys I ride with we run a 50/50 mix of 91/110 octane fuel. I would graeatly appreciate a test of this mixture. I am also very interested in the Torco test results. If or no other reason than convenience. Thanks!