Burned up starter

[Mongo 1]

My friend was ridding along the other night ('06 Rage) when his lights dimmed, engine popped twice and suddenly stopped dead. No luck on the trail, back home a quick search reveled the starter was the likely culprit. Back to the sled and found the starter shorted to ground, and the engine unable to turn backward (one way clutch) starter time.

Why do the starters run on some sleds when the engine is running? I have seen some blame the relay, some the flip key ('06 models), it all seems odd to me. The problems have seemingly occurred on all models, including the new Phazer. The only common item is the starter relay. As I said before it all seems odd to me.

 

[rxrider]

Have seen that on a RS Venture as well. Starter turned itself on while the owner rode his sled. He never even noticed it happen, and all of a sudden his sled lost it lights and stopped. Relay was shot, the whole wireing from the relay to the starter was fried and the starter itself was jammed. With the starter engaged it drains the battery fast.

 

[Mongo 1]

We have checked every inch of wiring, and the only faulty part was the starter relay, and obviously the starter. Apparently the relays either short internally and energize the coil, or the ignition switch shorts internally. None of it makes any sense, so we are going to install a couple of safety's in the circuit for good measure.

 

[Len Todd]

Hey, ... When you figure out your "Safetys," please let us know what you did.

 

[radta7]

Had the same thing happen to my wife's 2006 Nitro. Her machine only had 900 miles. I even called Yamaha and they told me "Sorry"

800 dollars for parts and labor... vaseline not included. some details posted in the Nitro area.

 

[Len Todd]

It seems like one could put an LED on the "dash area" and tap into the post-solenoid starter circuit. If there is power to the starter, the LED would light up, kind of like a warning lamp.

The only convenient way to failsafe the starter circuit would be to put a switch circuit in the post-solenoid circuit. The new switch and wiring would have to be fairly heavy. Then those new wires would have to be carefully routed to a convenient operating location for the switch. Sounds like a lot of work and increased risk for a new potential short. I probably would want to fuse it to protect things. That would have to be a pretty big fuse. I am sure it could all be done. However, if I had a power indicator, then I would personally not go through the trouble to fail-safe it.

But then again, I personally am willing to live with the risk and leave it as it came from the factory. These days, we occasionally hear about these incidents, which are a big deal to the ones directly impacted. But, considering the number of sleds out there and current relatively low frequency of this problem, to me, it probably is not worth a modification.

Just my thoughts on the topic.

 

[rxrider]

I feel the same way, this will only happen to me statistically probably never

 

[Lou's rage]

Hi ,, just installed that little warning light and a volt meter gage , works well . PS don;t want that to happen to me anymore !!!! Louy's rage 05

 

[chiefy]

Has anyone had this happen recently on newer models? I just had the starter stick on an 2008 Nytro. Burned up the starter, drained battery and left me stranded. Error code 46 and 12 which is crankshaft position sensor. I don't know how that ties in to this thought but thats what shutdown and locked out the sled.

Dealer is replacing starter and starter relay on warrenty.

 

[Rockmeister]

Hey, ... When you figure out your "Safetys," please let us know what you did.

I like your warning light idea!
ANY relay will eventually fail, its only a matter of time, so the light is a great idea!

A possibillity on the "safety" idea is another relay after the stock one wired to the NC (NC=Normally Closed contacts) in series with the starter hot wire, and activated by the lights.
When the headlights come on, the sled is running, and would open the "safety" relay, preventing the starter from activating while the sled is running.

This in combination with a warning light should get you back easily and prevent any damage to the system.
This will allow you to finish riding and later replace the relay without damage to the system.

All the wires required are at the current relay location. (headlight wire being Blue/White)

 

[Mongo 1]

Wow I was so upset when I posed this I forgot all about it. We installed a light that pops out under the handlebar pad next to the throttle. Figured this was the first step to uncover the problem. It is connected to the starter side of the relay so anytime the starter has power it is illuminated. It didn't take long to find the problem, it's the ignition switch. One morning while warming his sled after breakfast the light was on, as soon as he touched the key it went out. If the light was not there he would be on started number two, there is no other warning, you can not hear the starter when the engine is running. You will have to forgive me I have not even read all of the responses yet, so I will probably answer other questions latter.

 

[Mongo 1]

Hey, ... When you figure out your "Safetys," please let us know what you did.

I like your warning light idea!
ANY relay will eventually fail, its only a matter of time, so the light is a great idea!

A possibility on the "safety" idea is another relay after the stock one wired to the NC (NC=Normally Closed contacts) in series with the starter hot wire, and activated by the lights.
When the headlights come on, the sled is running, and would open the "safety" relay, preventing the starter from activating while the sled is running.

This in combination with a warning light should get you back easily and prevent any damage to the system.
This will allow you to finish riding and later replace the relay without damage to the system.

All the wires required are at the current relay location. (headlight wire being Blue/White)

As I said in my last post, his was the ignition switch, others may have other problems. You hit the nail right on the head, my idea was a secondary relay that would open when the headlight came on. But in the end I settled on a battery disconnect switch. A simple twist and the entire sled is dead. Also comes in handy as a theft deterrent.