Dalton black/orange VS Dalton black/tan

[jonlafon1]

Hi guys. Wondering what would get me slightly more pressure on the big end (over110 MPH).
Little history. Two years ago while testing I notice my belt slipping up on the big top end. This was with a straight 38 helix, black/orange at 90. Going back with that set up/38 straight but need just slightly more pressure. So thinking maybe the black/tan @ 2/2 or 2/3. OR maybe drilling a additional hole in helix to get me 95 on the wrap. I did see Mike had mentioned he had done this to give 5 degree more twist. Probably be 1000 foot run on snow this year.(starting line will be trenched out and icy).. The secondary slipping that i noticed was on pure ice above 110 mph 1000 feet, back a few years ago when we had winter.
Also getting ready to change out studs. 1.63 triggers/w/ angled backers OR 1.63 chisels/reg backers on a 1" track?
Thanks for any thoughts.
Jon

 

[snowdust]

Deleting post so people don't get bad info as Mike has posted the correct numbers on page 3.

 

[jonlafon1]

FYI - My notes show blk/tan is 120/270 @ 60 degrees. Blk/O is 165/305 at 95 degrees.

That's seems low for the black/tan. @60.

 

[snowdust]

Yeah, I'm not sure. Just pulling from old notes when I was trying a bunch of springs. I'm sure Knapp will chime in.

 

[KnappAttack]

Hi guys. Wondering what would get me slightly more pressure on the big end (over110 MPH).
Little history. Two years ago while testing I notice my belt slipping up on the big top end. This was with a straight 38 helix, black/orange at 90. Going back with that set up/38 straight but need just slightly more pressure. So thinking maybe the black/tan @ 2/2 or 2/3. OR maybe drilling a additional hole in helix to get me 95 on the wrap. I did see Mike had mentioned he had done this to give 5 degree more twist. Probably be 1000 foot run on snow this year.(starting line will be trenched out and icy).. The secondary slipping that i noticed was on pure ice above 110 mph 1000 feet, back a few years ago when we had winter.
Also getting ready to change out studs. 1.63 triggers/w/ angled backers OR 1.63 chisels/reg backers on a 1" track?
Thanks for any thoughts.
Jon

Jon, the black/tan has quite a bit more top end pressure and less on the bottom end. I remember running it at 50 once on the trail and IMO was a bit much up top. I've always ran the B/O on the Dalton 41/37 at 90 wrap and it just barely holds on to the XS825 there up top. In the deeper loose snow, I'll go back to a straight 35 helix and leave it at 90 when the tracks spinning hard, and I'd reconfigure the primary, this of course for trail use on Hurricane tunes.

It'd be an easy change to swap springs at the track though if all you are doing is radar running, would take a whole 2 minutes to find out which is better on the gun. I'd run the tan at 50 degrees and the B/O at 95 to compare. The tan is going to grunt harder earlier though as its quite a bit less on the bottom than the B/O.

 

[jonlafon1]

Jon, the black/tan has quite a bit more top end pressure and less on the bottom end. I remember running it at 50 once on the trail and IMO was a bit much up top. I've always ran the B/O on the Dalton 41/37 at 90 wrap and it just barely holds on to the XS825 there up top. In the deeper loose snow, I'll go back to a straight 35 helix and leave it at 90 when the tracks spinning hard, and I'd reconfigure the primary, this of course for trail use on Hurricane tunes.

It'd be an easy change to swap springs at the track though if all you are doing is radar running, would take a whole 2 minutes to find out which is better on the gun. I'd run the tan at 50 degrees and the B/O at 95 to compare. The tan is going to grunt harder earlier though as its quite a bit less on the bottom than the B/O.

Thanks Mike. Im thinking B/O @ 95, On either straight 38 OR 41/37 Guess I need to test on the lake(both springs/both helixes) the day before and fine tune at the track.

 

[KnappAttack]

Thanks Mike. Im thinking B/O @ 95, On either straight 38 OR 41/37 Guess I need to test on the lake(both springs/both helixes) the day before and fine tune at the track.

Jon, are you using the STM helix yet or the Daltons? I know we spoke about this before on how much more angle was on the STM helix's.

Also know that what works for ET doesnt work for speed and visa versa. On speed runs you end up with less ET and more speed. Not sure what you are racing, but assume it's for speed runs.

 

[jonlafon1]

Jon, are you using the STM helix yet or the Daltons? I know we spoke about this before on how much more angle was on the STM helix's.

Also know that what works for ET doesnt work for speed and visa versa. On speed runs you end up with less ET and more speed. Not sure what you are racing, but assume it's for speed runs.

I have the Dalton 41/37. Bents camp is usually a snow track @1000 feet. So the line turns into trenched out ice. Once you get out 100-200 feet its harder pack. Last time they had it 2 years ago it was sold ice 660 feet. Its more a fun day then serious racing. Speed trap at the end of track. Ran a 113 last time in 660. Stock header, 38 helix wrapped @6/3, 1.25" track, TD max spool 17 lean. Running a 1" track this year.

 

[KnappAttack]

I have the Dalton 41/37. Bents camp is usually a snow track @1000 feet. So the line turns into trenched out ice. Once you get out 100-200 feet its harder pack. Last time they had it 2 years ago it was sold ice 660 feet. Its more a fun day then serious racing. Speed trap at the end of track. Ran a 113 last time in 660. Stock header, 38 helix wrapped @6/3, 1.25" track, TD max spool 17 lean. Running a 1" track this year.

So here's the deal Jon, the 1" track is going to be easier pulling on the top end than the 1.25 track, allowing for the same setup with less stress on the belt without the problem. I'd stick with the same setup and expect much better speed because of the track if conditions are the same, you likely will not get the slippage on the secondary clutch as you had experienced before.

Wasn't your 38 helix the STM?

 

[jonlafon1]

Thanks. That stm 38 has been retired for 3 years. I have a BDX 38. Measured with angle finder. Yea I figured the track may help me a little with slip up top. The 37 finish on the 41/37 may help a pinch. But yea I’m going back to my oringanl setup from day one on my 2022.

 

[fatchance]

Jon if i remember correctly, wasn't the STM 38 equal to a 44-45 Yamaha angle?

 

[jonlafon1]

Jon if i remember correctly, wasn't the STM 38 equal to a 44-45 Yamaha angle?

Yes correct. 46 is what it measures with angle finder

 

[1nc 2000]

I tried the black tan briefly.

Was running the black orange at 90.
Belt would slip on top end with black orange.

Black tan would shift too quick down low and mid range without changing anything in primary. It was a tug of war contest with the belt. Would not even rpm. This was at 50°.
I put the black tan back on the shelf.
Didn't have time that day to adjust primary to see if I could get it to work.

Currently running the Thunder Products Orange spring set at 60°.

 

[PowderFalcon]

I ran the black tan on the weekend for the first time set at 50 with 37/33 helix. 100 miles and launched a belt. (admittedly a tired belt with probably 1000 miles on it). The secondary was quite hot. Wondered if i need to wrap it tighter (60) due to slipping with PEFI stage 3. Not sure what to do now!

 

[jonlafon1]

I ran the black tan on the weekend for the first time set at 50 with 37/33 helix. 100 miles and launched a belt. (admittedly a tired belt with probably 1000 miles on it). The secondary was quite hot. Wondered if i need to wrap it tighter (60) due to slipping with PEFI stage 3. Not sure what to do now!

37/33 helix should not need that much tension even at that tune. I don't run that helix but if i did I would run the black/orange @6/1 and do heat checks on the secondary after a good(WFO) 1/4 mile pull minimum. If its hot go up(twist more) until the temps come down.