Dalton black/orange VS Dalton black/tan

[justinator]

Well your welcome to come back to Yamaha clutches anytime! What weights were you pulling with the black/tan/825/stright35? If I remember correctly Daltons? Going to try that spring(3/2) along with TP orange(6/1) and black orange(6/3)out on the lake the day before. Will see which does better on the draggy.

Yes Daltons but I dont remember grams and they wouldnt correspond with your heavy hitters anyway.
Not too speak for fleecer but Im quite certain his 3-3 wrap with black tan is with gboost belt. 3-3 might be a bit much for ultimax depending on the helix. Never know till you try though.

 

[Fleecer]

Stock 35, Dalton's with lots of tip weight.

Be careful......you may join the 150 Club!! Lol

 

[KnappAttack]

Yes Daltons but I dont remember grams and they wouldnt correspond with your heavy hitters anyway.
Not too speak for fleecer but Im quite certain his 3-3 wrap with black tan is with gboost belt. 3-3 might be a bit much for ultimax depending on the helix. Never know till you try though.

Let's not forget, Fleecer is running mega gear for the speed he's running too, so the setup needs to be different. Exactly why one cant compare notes on clutching either, plus the different tunes on the market are going to need different setups as well. Lots of variables out there.

 

[Fleecer]

Let's not forget, Fleecer is running mega gear for the speed he's running too, so the setup needs to be different. Exactly why one cant compare notes on clutching either, plus the different tunes on the market are going to need different setups as well. Lots of variables out there.

Mike.....you make a valid point!! For what it's worth, although I prefer the GBOOST, I've tested 3-3 with the Ultimax and had great results. I tried 3-1, 3-2, but 3-3 makes the best top speed and best belt temps. Just my findings......

 

[jonlafon1]

Stock 35, Dalton's with lots of tip weight.

Be careful......you may join the 150 Club!! Lol

Im only eligible for the 128 club.. 22/41 gears !

 

[jonlafon1]

with lots of tip weight.

Funny you mention this.. Again not apples to apples but I load hitters really heavy in the heels and the tip. Middle is almost empty. THIS works with a straight angle helix well. Not as much with say a 41/37. Just my findings.. When that weight hits and the tip swings hold on!

 

[1049triple]

I also ran the Black/Tan at 3-3 and even 6-1 for years on the trails with a 37 straight, 21/41 gearing and DTYA1 with tip weight. Ultimax belt. Never blown one. Changed at about 3500km.

 

[KnappAttack]

Good to know. I went to test the pressures today on my drill press scale to get you guys some figures, its been a long while since I've run the Black/Tan, and my damn scale was broken, I'm making repairs to it with epoxy tonight and hoping to get some figures tomorrow if the epoxy sets up well enough. I want to see how it compares to the B/O cause for the life of me I cant find my old notes on it. I just remember how stout it was towards the finish, and was lighter at the start, its about all I can remember of it. Makes sense people are using the tan on a straight angle helix because of that reason.

 

[mrtwostroke]

could it be this one

 

[KnappAttack]

Thanks Jon, That was with the Viper secondary when I was testing with that. I’ll run them on the winder secondary if I can get my scale operational today. Epoxy is setting up on it now.

 

[KnappAttack]

Here is from my pressure testing today. Know that I have these helix's machined for full travel. I take the low end pressure as the movable starts to make a bit of swing and come off the shims I run internally for belt deflection, and the top end pressure well before full shift out on my primary so I dont bind on the hub or the spring. What I did notice is that the B/Tan is getting closer to coil bind than the B/Orange, especially with the 35 helix as the spring travels further around on the 35 than it would on the 41-37.

It is as I recall it was, the Tan spring is really heavy at the finish and lighter at the start than the B/O V2 by quite a bit.

Note: I also went back and tested the Tan on the 35 at the 40 wrap that justinator was running on the Winder secondary. The Tan is soft at the start & very stout at the finish when testing on the bench in its environment. Just a little bit more travel at the end makes for a huge change on the Tan spring!


EDIT: See post #43 below for accurate numbers on Yamaha belts and accurate secondary travel with finish rates on B/O and Tan spring.

 

[jonlafon1]

Here is from my pressure testing today. Know that I have these helix's machined for full travel. I take the low end pressure as the movable starts to make a bit of swing and come off the shims I run internally for belt deflection, and the top end pressure well before full shift out on my primary so I dont bind on the hub or the spring. What I did notice is that the B/Tan is getting closer to coil bind than the B/Orange, especially with the 35 helix as the spring travels further around on the 35 than it would on the 41-37.

It is as I recall it was, the Tan spring is really heavy at the finish and lighter at the start than the B/O V2 by quite a bit.

Note: I also went back and tested the Tan on the 35 at the 40 wrap that justinator was running on the Winder secondary. The Tan is soft at the start & very stout at the finish when testing on the bench in its environment. Just a little bit more travel at the end makes for a huge change on the Tan spring!

View attachment 177904

Awesome. Thanks Mike. This is going straight to photo library for future reference.

 

[KnappAttack]

Hold the phone!!!!!!!

It was bothering me as to why the finish pressure were so high on my spring testing the other day, it dawned on me this AM that my helix's are machined on the hub. I did this machining to be able to run the TEAM primary and utilize Cats 1.5" wide belt. I doubt anyone is doing that so the figures I posted on post #41 are skewed because of the addition travel I'm measuring at.

I re-tested all my pressures today with stock secondary movable travel. I grabbed a stock helix without the hub machined, put it in the drill press, touched on it and backed off on the travel .020" as to not bottom on the hub. This is where most will run at full shift and where I should have been measuring from. I was not my intention to mis-lead anyone because I forgot I have machined all my hubs for the added travel, but I knew these finish numbers I used earlier seemed really-really high before it dawned on me as to the why.

So here are the figures with the finish travel at minus .020" from the hub bottoming on a stock helix. This is much more realistic to full shift using Yamaha belts. You can see its way less that it was previously and really shows how the tan spring reacts to a big increase in twist with adding travel to the movable.

Jon, use these figures for future reference. Not the other chart with the added travel. I'm taking down the old chart as its misleading using the added travel for the 1.5" wide belt. I dont want people mis-lead with it.

 

[jonlafon1]

Hold the phone!!!!!!!

It was bothering me as to why the finish pressure were so high on my spring testing the other day, it dawned on me this AM that my helix's are machined on the hub. I did this machining to be able to run the TEAM primary and utilize Cats 1.5" wide belt. I doubt anyone is doing that so the figures I posted on post #41 are skewed because of the addition travel I'm measuring at.

I re-tested all my pressures today with stock secondary movable travel. I grabbed a stock helix without the hub machined, put it in the drill press, touched on it and backed off on the travel .020" as to not bottom on the hub. This is where most will run at full shift and where I should have been measuring from. I was not my intention to mis-lead anyone because I forgot I have machined all my hubs for the added travel, but I knew these finish numbers I used earlier seemed really-really high before it dawned on me as to the why.

So here is the figures with the finish travel at .020" off the hub on a stock helix. This is much more realistic to full shift using Yamaha belts. You can see its way less that it was previously and really shows how the tan spring reacts to a big increase in twist with adding travel to the movable.

Jon, use these figures for future reference. Not the other chart with the added travel. I'm taking down the old chart as its misleading using the added travel for the 1.5" wide belt. I dont want people mis-lead with it.

View attachment 177925

Got it!!

 

[jonlafon1]

Hold the phone!!!!!!!

It was bothering me as to why the finish pressure were so high on my spring testing the other day, it dawned on me this AM that my helix's are machined on the hub. I did this machining to be able to run the TEAM primary and utilize Cats 1.5" wide belt. I doubt anyone is doing that so the figures I posted on post #41 are skewed because of the addition travel I'm measuring at.

I re-tested all my pressures today with stock secondary movable travel. I grabbed a stock helix without the hub machined, put it in the drill press, touched on it and backed off on the travel .020" as to not bottom on the hub. This is where most will run at full shift and where I should have been measuring from. I was not my intention to mis-lead anyone because I forgot I have machined all my hubs for the added travel, but I knew these finish numbers I used earlier seemed really-really high before it dawned on me as to the why.

So here is the figures with the finish travel at .020" off the hub on a stock helix. This is much more realistic to full shift using Yamaha belts. You can see its way less that it was previously and really shows how the tan spring reacts to a big increase in twist with adding travel to the movable.

Jon, use these figures for future reference. Not the other chart with the added travel. I'm taking down the old chart as its misleading using the added travel for the 1.5" wide belt. I dont want people mis-lead with it.

View attachment 177925

Thanks Mike. Any chance you can tell me how I get 95 twist on that black/ orange? I think I’m going to stick with the 90 on the back/orange unless my heat gun tells me differently. But I thought I saw you had drilled another hole in helix for the 95 twist. I’m guessing I might need that little extra. I hate to drill out helix wrong or mess it up.