Difficult starting in extreme cold

[50mile]

I question at cold temps {-30,40}if injectors are supplying enough fuel at start.think stans idea of mechanicl fuel primer would help greatly,when electrical power not available.need lots of fuel at those temps to start.maybe remove air breather try spray bottle with fuel directly into throttle body to see if any improvement,before installing primer.carefull of flooding.starting fluid worked but had issues with a sensor after.sold my sled but think I would try it.i also did not have electrical power out on line.

 

[Mooseman]

Even if adding fuel manually works, adding an old fashioned plunger type primer would be difficult. Can't tap into any of the existing fuel lines. The main line is pressurized from the tank, return line does not guarantee fuel will be there. Using a spray bottle on a per occasion basis will be a PITA to open the airbox and remove the air filter each time you need to.

And to say that with fuel injection, we're trying to get away from this. Shades of my old Doo!

 

[50mile]

agree,getting acess to fuel would be a issue.direct fuel in body would just determine if extra fuel would help extreme cold starts,when power not available.

 

[4strokeluvr111]

Some thoughts - sorry if they have already been suggested...

1. If its an EFI engine coolant heaters may throw off what they system is telling the throttle bodies to do. It's sensing warm coolant so it's saying "hey the engine isn't needng more fuel because it's warm".
2. Most any EFI systems are very sensitive to system voltage. The more the better. Installing a battery heater pad that you plug in over night can't do anything but help. There are heat pads that will operate off of 12v so you could run them while the sled is running, or turn it on/off via a switch. I'd think this would help inthe case of the battery in a Viper.
3. Premium fuel will burn cooler than regular. IMO...up in those conditions I'd be running regular octane.

 

[50mile]

when I have 110 volt power available [home or generator]one hour with coolant heater and oil tank heater,trickle charger,will start any tempeture.-50.f will start no problem.after engine warm I shut down,heat drive belt with hand held propane torch best I can,carefull of clutches,springs.drive away no belt burn.best to remove drive belt when you park and bring indoors,install after engine warm,[engine off of course]

 

[Mooseman]

Why are you heating the belt? We don't get down to -50 here so I can't relate to belt failures due to cold.

 

[50mile]

at-30.f and colder ,drive belt does not want to rotate,to cold .drive clutch will burn a notch in belt.warm belt makes huge difference.

 

[YukonMP]

My sled is rarely parked flat on the snow overnight. If I'm home I have a lift that takes the track right off the ground, otherwise I put a board in front of the track as I stop and pull up on it until it is at the rear axle. In either case the track is hanging loose and doesn't freeze to the sliders. Another kindness to the belt on cold mornings.

 

[wacnstac]

Hey Stan, I was watching the show last night and saw you on your sled. Gotta ask you what skis you are running on that thing. They look huge. It's gotta help with the floatation and stability but they must be pretty hard to turn with. What skis are they?

 

[stanzuray]

Hey Stan, I was watching the show last night and saw you on your sled. Gotta ask you what skis you are running on that thing. They look huge. It's gotta help with the floatation and stability but they must be pretty hard to turn with. What skis are they?

Sorry for late reply but someone may still see this post someday and be interested in wide skies. They are not hard to turn as they float so much and are actually to easy and so need extra skegs sometimes. They protect the skies and float over much of the rough stuff that wears out ski leg bushings etc. Check out this Facebook post ( https://www.facebook.com/stan.zuray/posts/1544669745805921 ) and some wide ski pictures. These here are not for narrow trails but most of my snow going is in open country or wider trails. Stan

 

[Robert Arsenault]

Out here in the village (Tanana - middle of Alaska) and two of us got the 499cc four strokes new this year. I got a new 2013 and for most of the winter it's been unusually warm. Anyway both of us got shut down lately when temps got down to 20 below. Both of us have the cold weather installs of oil heater, charger and antifreeze heater. Even after 8 hours heating no start. So sealed up all entrances to engine compartment and blanketed whole cowling and got it to start at -20 finally one day but 25 below next day was a no go. Engine turns over fine and fast enough. Coughs like it tries to start but don't want to damage starter so don't push it at all.
So other day it got to 30 below and I thought the darn thing starts at 10 below fine so I'll just make it that inside the engine compartment. Rigged up a hair dryer inside engine compartment (which we use all the time on our 2 strokes) and blanketed the cowling and openings - ran hair dryer an hour and engine fired right up. I'm now doing that at 38 yesterday and 41 below this morning and starting fine.
I'd say there is something electrical or something like fuel injectors that need the heat and they are not getting it from the oil tank or antifreeze heaters. It's a solution but you need electricity for it so no good on the trail without a generator. But at least it can be started now. Like the sno go and love the gas millage at $7 a gallon here. Love any input on this - been all over looking for hints etc. Stan

Hi Stan,
I realize that this is an older post but thought I'd throw in my 2 cents worth. Just wondering if you've resolved your cold starting issue?
I just bought a brand new 2016 RS Vector X-TX 146, and although I haven't been to my camp up North with it yet, I'm a little concerned about getting it started in the -40 that we get occasionally. It has less than 60 miles on it but that will change very soon. I'm not sure that every 4 stroke sled comes out of the Yamaha factory with 0w-30 synthetic oil, and quickly realized that the oil change kit I had bought for my Ski Doo 600 ACE was not fully synthetic. It used to start in -30 weather, and then it wouldn't. I should have known better because the oil container label did not have the viscosity written on it. I replaced it with some Mobil 0w-30, and it was fine. So today I went to my local Yamaha dealer and ordered the programmable Sledstart remote starter, and the coolant heater. The remote start can be set up to have it start on its own and run for a predetermined time that you select, so apparently I could set it for -25, and have it run for 10-15 minutes. Not sure how well that's going to work but I'm anxious to try it. I ordered the Yamaha coolant heater as a back up, no hydro up there but the genny could power that up. From what I'm reading on this site, it makes a difference where you install it, hopefully the instructions are clear. Rob

 

[stanzuray]

Hi Stan,
I realize that this is an older post but thought I'd throw in my 2 cents worth. Just wondering if you've resolved your cold starting issue?
I just bought a brand new 2016 RS Vector X-TX 146, and although I haven't been to my camp up North with it yet, I'm a little concerned about getting it started in the -40 that we get occasionally. It has less than 60 miles on it but that will change very soon. I'm not sure that every 4 stroke sled comes out of the Yamaha factory with 0w-30 synthetic oil, and quickly realized that the oil change kit I had bought for my Ski Doo 600 ACE was not fully synthetic. It used to start in -30 weather, and then it wouldn't. I should have known better because the oil container label did not have the viscosity written on it. I replaced it with some Mobil 0w-30, and it was fine. So today I went to my local Yamaha dealer and ordered the programmable Sledstart remote starter, and the coolant heater. The remote start can be set up to have it start on its own and run for a predetermined time that you select, so apparently I could set it for -25, and have it run for 10-15 minutes. Not sure how well that's going to work but I'm anxious to try it. I ordered the Yamaha coolant heater as a back up, no hydro up there but the genny could power that up. From what I'm reading on this site, it makes a difference where you install it, hopefully the instructions are clear. Rob

Yes I resolved the problem of why when the antifreeze heater, battery charger and oil tank heater were all plugged in and had a blanket over the engine compartment I could only start it in 5 degree colder temperatures than doing nothing to warm it up. It started okay doing nothing at 20 below but 25 was questionable and took a lot of cranking if at all. With all the stuff plugged in and a blanket covering it all I could dependably start at 25 below. That seemed ridiculous to only get 5 degrees more start ability. Solution started being talked about in thread above but never replied the final answer. 50 Mile mentioned it also. Turns out for 10 years my dealer was installing the heaters in the easiest place but one that did not heat the engine. The tiny amount better it would start was probably the heat from the heaters given off to the general air in the engine compartment. With the antifreeze heater mounted in the harder to install place next to the engine intake the engine heats great and with some blankets on the cowling and vents started at 40 to 50 below fine. I got a small generator at my farthest trap camp just for this machine now. Dealer now installing heater in right place. Hope this helps. They will never be like the old single cylinder and small twin 2 strokes you could get going at 40 to 50 below with lots of pulling.

 

[Robert Arsenault]

Yes I resolved the problem of why when the antifreeze heater, battery charger and oil tank heater were all plugged in and had a blanket over the engine compartment I could only start it in 5 degree colder temperatures than doing nothing to warm it up. It started okay doing nothing at 20 below but 25 was questionable and took a lot of cranking if at all. With all the stuff plugged in and a blanket covering it all I could dependably start at 25 below. That seemed ridiculous to only get 5 degrees more start ability. Solution started being talked about in thread above but never replied the final answer. 50 Mile mentioned it also. Turns out for 10 years my dealer was installing the heaters in the easiest place but one that did not heat the engine. The tiny amount better it would start was probably the heat from the heaters given off to the general air in the engine compartment. With the antifreeze heater mounted in the harder to install place next to the engine intake the engine heats great and with some blankets on the cowling and vents started at 40 to 50 below fine. I got a small generator at my farthest trap camp just for this machine now. Dealer now installing heater in right place. Hope this helps. They will never be like the old single cylinder and small twin 2 strokes you could get going at 40 to 50 below with lots of pulling.

And that's why I still have a 1990 Bravo in my fleet, lol!
I sure hope the coolant heater instructions show the proper installation location.
Love your show, and I've seen your MP running water.
Have a great evening!

 

[YukonMP]

You guys really got my attention. My inline coolant heater is installed right behind the rad fan. Stan, is that the preferred location?

As soon as this thread was revived I could picture those wild skis you made for yourself.

 

[stanzuray]

You guys really got my attention. My inline coolant heater is installed right behind the rad fan. Stan, is that the preferred location?

As soon as this thread was revived I could picture those wild skis you made for yourself.

No, that is the easy and accessible place. It is much more work to install in a place it would do some good close to the engine block. More of the engine compartment junk has to be taken off to get at that good place and dealers either don't realize an install by the radiator does virtually nothing or they don't want to spend the extra time to install correctly. The size hoses close to the engine block are different than the radiator area install so either need a different heater or hose adapter etc. to make it work. It was a hassle doing mine but in the end worked great. I would suggest finding a dealer that does it right and buying the correct heater to fit the hoses or adapters that they use or having them just do it. My machine was in pieces for 2 weeks waiting on parts through the mail. Hope this helps.
Here's another snogo I put wide skies on. Wife's new 2 stroke Yamaha.