arteeex
TY 4 Stroke Master
I think it would be helpful to recognize that there are two elements that need to be considered in the handling performance of any sled. First is the machine element and second, the human. The machine’s adjustments are intended mainly to affect its dynamic response to terrain input, but the human element has far more adjustability in skill, strength, coordination, balance, expectations etcetera. To say one sled is faster through a section than another sled completely ignores the human contribution.
If, as an idealized construct, you imagined sending two different sleds through a test section at 60 MPH without riders, both would make it at exactly the same time. It’s only when you add the rider that this test would get interesting, which makes us the weak link. Different riders on different sleds and at different times would produce a range of results. But if you, as a rider, adjust to the characteristics of the machine you’re on, this range would likely decrease to some insignificant value. Maybe the strong reactions to the way Nytros handle – or don’t – are as much related to where the system fits with the collective expectations and experiences with previous sleds and not necessarily the in the shocks, springs, spindles, or seat foam of the Nytro. Not all the adjustments are mechanical.
I found a Nytro setup that works and adjusted to get more out of my rides than I ever did on my REV. But, don’t get me started on the hand-warmers.
Next we’ll tackle the issue of a tree falling in the forest; if the only one there to hear is deaf, will it make a noise?
If, as an idealized construct, you imagined sending two different sleds through a test section at 60 MPH without riders, both would make it at exactly the same time. It’s only when you add the rider that this test would get interesting, which makes us the weak link. Different riders on different sleds and at different times would produce a range of results. But if you, as a rider, adjust to the characteristics of the machine you’re on, this range would likely decrease to some insignificant value. Maybe the strong reactions to the way Nytros handle – or don’t – are as much related to where the system fits with the collective expectations and experiences with previous sleds and not necessarily the in the shocks, springs, spindles, or seat foam of the Nytro. Not all the adjustments are mechanical.
I found a Nytro setup that works and adjusted to get more out of my rides than I ever did on my REV. But, don’t get me started on the hand-warmers.
Next we’ll tackle the issue of a tree falling in the forest; if the only one there to hear is deaf, will it make a noise?
- Joined
- Apr 13, 2003
- Messages
- 21,497
- Age
- 54
- Location
- Schofield, WI
- Website
- www.totallyamaha.com
- Country
- USA
- Snowmobile
- 2020 Sidewinder SRX
arteeex, great post!!!
Reaper
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
- Joined
- Nov 10, 2005
- Messages
- 667
- Location
- Starbuck, Manitoba
- Country
- Canada
- Snowmobile
- 2014 SR Viper XTX. COTC, Hygear 141 pro link.
Another satisfied RTX owner again, there is that pattern again. Hmmmmmmm still waiting for the Standard FX owner to jump in with all smiles.
Scranton1
Newbie
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2008
- Messages
- 8
Nytro Average Rider
The biggest thing we are forgeting about is that the average rider 7/10 aren't capable of making the majority of adjustments discussed on this site nor would they want to......... Not everyone is a racer or grease monkey.
When you pay 10 grand for a machine, you don't expect to have to go through a myriad of experiments to find the right ride. You buy, you get on, you expect a satisfactory experience.
During testing, the engineers and experts didn't experience these issues?? I can't imagine?
For the first two thousand miles on my nytro I tried to justify my purchase, almost fooling myself over and over that the ride/cornering were as good or even close to my previous revs. Its human nature and I wanted to believe it........
It wasn't until our last trip last week after switching back and forth under various terrain, temp, and conditions that I firmly realized it was very poor.
I couldn't imagine the rider that has no mechanical expertise!
The sled definetely has many positives........motor, seating position, fit and finish. Its just when I turn or when I brake that I am turned off.
Just my opinion..
The biggest thing we are forgeting about is that the average rider 7/10 aren't capable of making the majority of adjustments discussed on this site nor would they want to......... Not everyone is a racer or grease monkey.
When you pay 10 grand for a machine, you don't expect to have to go through a myriad of experiments to find the right ride. You buy, you get on, you expect a satisfactory experience.
During testing, the engineers and experts didn't experience these issues?? I can't imagine?
For the first two thousand miles on my nytro I tried to justify my purchase, almost fooling myself over and over that the ride/cornering were as good or even close to my previous revs. Its human nature and I wanted to believe it........
It wasn't until our last trip last week after switching back and forth under various terrain, temp, and conditions that I firmly realized it was very poor.
I couldn't imagine the rider that has no mechanical expertise!
The sled definetely has many positives........motor, seating position, fit and finish. Its just when I turn or when I brake that I am turned off.
Just my opinion..
Unluckydiablo
Expert
Re: Nytro Average Rider
I understand, and clearly, others are experienceing this. I love my nytro. Corners when I want, does what I want, goes where I want. Maybe I don't know any better, comming from a 500 zl with all shocks totally wasted. All I know is that I love my machine, and then after I ride, my friend, who is the best rider I know and can ride better than I ever expect to (90 through the trails and always on his side) has repeatedly said this:
"I've never seen a sled make a rider better. I wanted you on that ZL for another year, but this sled is clearly MADE for you. Your riding skill has quadrupled since you got on that sled. Never seen it.
Me (and my sled) have never been paid a greater compliment.
Scranton1 said:
I understand, and clearly, others are experienceing this. I love my nytro. Corners when I want, does what I want, goes where I want. Maybe I don't know any better, comming from a 500 zl with all shocks totally wasted. All I know is that I love my machine, and then after I ride, my friend, who is the best rider I know and can ride better than I ever expect to (90 through the trails and always on his side) has repeatedly said this:
"I've never seen a sled make a rider better. I wanted you on that ZL for another year, but this sled is clearly MADE for you. Your riding skill has quadrupled since you got on that sled. Never seen it.
Me (and my sled) have never been paid a greater compliment.
Zoggan
Extreme
I'm really beginning to believe that the Nytro RTX can be made to work and work well, for the right type of rider. It sounds like more time is required to set it up than the majority of riders want to, or are willing to spend. And it also sounds like a fair amount of chassis dynamic knowledge is required. This is definitely NOT a beginners sled. If you enjoy adjusting and testing (I do) then this sled just might be for you. It sounds like the 09 will be much more user friendly in terms of handling and setup, but I wonder if it will lose some of it's "Indy Car" quickness?
Notice I've been talking about the RTX, I think the jury is still out on the standard, Hey Reaper, you've convinced me!!
Kråkan
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
The "Indy Car" statement is no where near close imo. The sled doesnt handle like a race car. It handles twitchy. I bet a racecar that is twisty does NOT finish alot of races....??? My Cusin has an IQ and it is alot smoother than my Nytro but still has better cornering with less skipressure.. Go figgure...
Zoggan
Extreme
Kråkan said:
I see you've got Razors and Air chambers on your sled so obviously you've put a lot into trying to make it work. Without my going back and reading your posts did you try the 2.5mm mod and setting the toe out 3/4"?
unpride
Expert
It takes about 20minutes to get in the ballpark with setting it up. After that its just messing with compression and other small adjustments. How many of the people that say this sled is "twitchy" have studs? I think those plus 9 inch sharpers took any twitchiness right out of it. It stops straight, goes through bumps straight, and corners like its supposed to. I make the sled work for me, I can adjust myself to fit and be comfortable on the sled. It doesnt do anything I dont expect and is very predictable.
Reaper
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
- Joined
- Nov 10, 2005
- Messages
- 667
- Location
- Starbuck, Manitoba
- Country
- Canada
- Snowmobile
- 2014 SR Viper XTX. COTC, Hygear 141 pro link.
Zoggan said:
Hallelujah !
Kråkan
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
Got my balljoints machined. Not that big diff imo. Alittle more planted but not much. Tried a few different teo settings and now have app 7-8mm between first and last stud in the wearbars. Should be app 1/2" if messuring the whole ski..
Kråkan
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
Studs are not an option for me atleast.. The roules here in Sweden allow studs for Hill-X and Sno-X. Ill be going for SLP PP or Curve XS for next year. My sled has been OK in the handling department but since it got tweaked it is alot more twitchy.. Ill talk to my dealer and se how it goes..
Zoggan
Extreme
Kråkan said:
Just curious, what have you been riding in the past?
