Len Todd
TY 4 Stroke God
If you take it to the shop, unless you have a smart mechanic, they will most-likely let it sit in the heat for a week or two and dry it out. Then it will work, and you'll bring it home and things freeze up again. Although, with the right mechanic, they may get it fixed right away. So, ... You may want to ask a few questions about their approach, if it is going to the shop.
You can bypass TORS, to temporarily rule it out of the equation. But it does sound like the throttles are not returning on their own. If you put the sled up on a solid stand or lift the rear end with a chainfall, you should be able to see if the throttles are or are not returning on their own. (I think you may already be doing this.)
It sounds like you are hitting the rev limiter because the throttles are sticking open. Is that what you are thinking? If yes, can you bring the throttles down with your hand? If NO, are the throttle cables frozen or sticking from water/ice in the cable?
To clean out the throttle cable, Silicone will help. But you have to get all the moisture out. You may want to consider taking the cable off and heating it slightly in the oven overnight, with the door slightly open at 100- 125 degrees F or so. Test, using your fingers, the cable's coating to see when it is getting too warm.
Once the throttle is working correctly, then you need to hook TORS back up. We should not ride w/o TORS, because it is designed to save your neck in exactly the situation you are dealing with and some frozen moisture may show up later.
To get TORS functional, you may have to remove the throttle mount on the handlebar and take it in and dry it too. Again silicone may help. But drying electrical things slowly with a small amount of heat over a long period of time works, for sure. In my experience, Silicone, will not drive out ice, until the ice melts and then it still may not work.
You can bypass TORS, to temporarily rule it out of the equation. But it does sound like the throttles are not returning on their own. If you put the sled up on a solid stand or lift the rear end with a chainfall, you should be able to see if the throttles are or are not returning on their own. (I think you may already be doing this.)
It sounds like you are hitting the rev limiter because the throttles are sticking open. Is that what you are thinking? If yes, can you bring the throttles down with your hand? If NO, are the throttle cables frozen or sticking from water/ice in the cable?
To clean out the throttle cable, Silicone will help. But you have to get all the moisture out. You may want to consider taking the cable off and heating it slightly in the oven overnight, with the door slightly open at 100- 125 degrees F or so. Test, using your fingers, the cable's coating to see when it is getting too warm.
Once the throttle is working correctly, then you need to hook TORS back up. We should not ride w/o TORS, because it is designed to save your neck in exactly the situation you are dealing with and some frozen moisture may show up later.
To get TORS functional, you may have to remove the throttle mount on the handlebar and take it in and dry it too. Again silicone may help. But drying electrical things slowly with a small amount of heat over a long period of time works, for sure. In my experience, Silicone, will not drive out ice, until the ice melts and then it still may not work.
Len Todd
TY 4 Stroke God
About your water in the fuel question. It may take a few carb cleanings and a few hours running to work out all the water. keep putting in the dry gas, as you are doing. But do not over do it.
When you clean the carbs, it may be that all you need to do is drain the fuel out of the bowls using the drain bolt/plug. If you can catch the fuel that is drained in a container, if there is water in it, you can see it. If you are not getting water or other crud, you should be good to go, unless there is something in the jets. If there is no water or crud in the container, and you still suspect the carbs, then you are in for another carb cleaning. Good thing to practice. Eh?
When you clean the carbs, it may be that all you need to do is drain the fuel out of the bowls using the drain bolt/plug. If you can catch the fuel that is drained in a container, if there is water in it, you can see it. If you are not getting water or other crud, you should be good to go, unless there is something in the jets. If there is no water or crud in the container, and you still suspect the carbs, then you are in for another carb cleaning. Good thing to practice. Eh?
LazyBastard
TY 4 Stroke God
Use ALCOHOL to wash out water. Pick up a gallon or two of methyl or ethyl alcohol gas line antifreeze from you favorite autoparts store and dump it into a bucket along with the throttle lever, cable, and carb switch.
In case there is water stuck in the throttle valves or slides, it may be necessary to disassemble and/or soak the carbs in the same bucket. When you are certain that the water has been eliminated, pull parts out and let them dry, then soak them down with whatever kind of water repellant/lubricant you prefer.
In case there is water stuck in the throttle valves or slides, it may be necessary to disassemble and/or soak the carbs in the same bucket. When you are certain that the water has been eliminated, pull parts out and let them dry, then soak them down with whatever kind of water repellant/lubricant you prefer.
TB151
Veteran
One stupid possibility, does the sled have a riser on it? If so, did you yank on the riser or handlebars in any way when pulling the sled out of that hole? It's possible that the throttle cable could have been pulled out of where it connects down towards the motor.
Rockmeister
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LazyBastard said:
Alcohol works as a carrier by absorbing water to hold it in suspension, so it can go through the engine without major risk of damage (And the engine will still run!).
If you use alcohol on a part that doesn't get sucked/blown out, the alcohol will simply evaporate, leaving the much higher vapor point water behind.
What heating the part does, is lower the effective vapor pressure of the water so that it will evaporate faster and easier.
For things like the switches and cables, you have to force the water out.
That's what silicone does, it actually repels water, displacing it with the silicone.
I use the armor all wipes on my car door seals before the winter and take advantage of this principle to keep the doors from freezing to the seals.
The silicone repels any moisture, leaving no water on the seals to freeze.
Works great!
As someone pointed out, the sled must be warmed long enough to melt ALL the ice into water to be able to get rid of it.
Jerimiah Johnson
Newbie
UpDate
Hello all,Sorry it has been so long since I gave you an update.The wife has had me running around doing the HOLIDAY THING and I haven't had a whole lot of spare time.
First off I owe everyone that has posted here a heart felt THANK YOU!! You have poked and prodded me along at times when I was thoroughly frustrated,disgusted and ready to throw in the towel.Not to mention the money and headache you have spared me from dealing with a dealer.
So here's what I got going on to date....Yesterday I got the wood stove in the garage fired up and got the garage as warm as I could.I then pulled apart every electrical connector I could find(Some up in the nose still had water in them) and hit them with additional heat from the wife's blow dryer on the hottest setting.After I got them good and hot I sprayed the S***t out of them with silicone.I did this to the ignition switch as well as the TORS switch in the throttle piece for your thumb.Even managed to get that straw in the can of silicone into the the rubber around the kill switch!
Next I marched myself down to the local dealer and bought a new throttle cable,brought it home and put it on....And guess what?No more bouncing off the rev limiter!!! I just came in from riding for about an hour and a half and I never had it bounce off the rev limiter once.Knock on wood but I think(hope my TORS issues are over).
I do still have the issue where if you open it all the way up the motor falls on its face,gurgles, once in awhile pops out the exhaust and them comes right to life.It does this at a stand still or from a roll.I have yet to run a full tank of gas with Heet through it,Some I'm hoping this may still be a water in the fuel issue.
The instrument cluster finally died.The only thing that lights up on it now is the high beam indicator for the lights.The only thing I can think of is....The first time I pulled all the electrical connections and sprayed them with Yamaha contact cleaner,I sprayed the fuse panel.Seems like I broke a fuse pulling it out and and sprayed the contact cleaner without pulling the spare fuses out.When I went to replace the broken fuse with a spare,I discovered that the contact cleaner had ate up & dissolved the plastic holding the fuse itself together(Ever heard of this?)At any rate I'm wondering if perhaps the fuse I'm missing(forgot to pick one up today) has any thing to do with this?If not I see a new?/ used instrument cluster listed on ebay from time to time.
Another issue I'm having is with what I believe is the starter.When the sled has been setting in the cold,sometimes when you turn the key it will just click at the starter relay and not turn over.I have checked the connections at the starter relay and the starter and they seem fine.Usually I get it going by just messing with it(Tugging on the cables,tapping on the starter with my hand or wiggling the starter relay all while hitting the key) I'm not really sure whats going on.Perhaps water in the armature?After I rode it this evening I shut it off and started it again about 10 times with no problems.I'm thinking the engine heat is enough to keep whatever it is from freezing......Thoughts or Ideas??
Hello all,Sorry it has been so long since I gave you an update.The wife has had me running around doing the HOLIDAY THING and I haven't had a whole lot of spare time.
First off I owe everyone that has posted here a heart felt THANK YOU!! You have poked and prodded me along at times when I was thoroughly frustrated,disgusted and ready to throw in the towel.Not to mention the money and headache you have spared me from dealing with a dealer.
So here's what I got going on to date....Yesterday I got the wood stove in the garage fired up and got the garage as warm as I could.I then pulled apart every electrical connector I could find(Some up in the nose still had water in them) and hit them with additional heat from the wife's blow dryer on the hottest setting.After I got them good and hot I sprayed the S***t out of them with silicone.I did this to the ignition switch as well as the TORS switch in the throttle piece for your thumb.Even managed to get that straw in the can of silicone into the the rubber around the kill switch!
Next I marched myself down to the local dealer and bought a new throttle cable,brought it home and put it on....And guess what?No more bouncing off the rev limiter!!! I just came in from riding for about an hour and a half and I never had it bounce off the rev limiter once.Knock on wood but I think(hope my TORS issues are over).
I do still have the issue where if you open it all the way up the motor falls on its face,gurgles, once in awhile pops out the exhaust and them comes right to life.It does this at a stand still or from a roll.I have yet to run a full tank of gas with Heet through it,Some I'm hoping this may still be a water in the fuel issue.
The instrument cluster finally died.The only thing that lights up on it now is the high beam indicator for the lights.The only thing I can think of is....The first time I pulled all the electrical connections and sprayed them with Yamaha contact cleaner,I sprayed the fuse panel.Seems like I broke a fuse pulling it out and and sprayed the contact cleaner without pulling the spare fuses out.When I went to replace the broken fuse with a spare,I discovered that the contact cleaner had ate up & dissolved the plastic holding the fuse itself together(Ever heard of this?)At any rate I'm wondering if perhaps the fuse I'm missing(forgot to pick one up today) has any thing to do with this?If not I see a new?/ used instrument cluster listed on ebay from time to time.
Another issue I'm having is with what I believe is the starter.When the sled has been setting in the cold,sometimes when you turn the key it will just click at the starter relay and not turn over.I have checked the connections at the starter relay and the starter and they seem fine.Usually I get it going by just messing with it(Tugging on the cables,tapping on the starter with my hand or wiggling the starter relay all while hitting the key) I'm not really sure whats going on.Perhaps water in the armature?After I rode it this evening I shut it off and started it again about 10 times with no problems.I'm thinking the engine heat is enough to keep whatever it is from freezing......Thoughts or Ideas??
for what it is worth, I would take all the connectors back apart and coat them with dielectric grease. It will help with any future moisture and is a good idea on all connectors anyway.
I did this on my turbo install, hoping to stave off any corrosion issues down the road.
k
I did this on my turbo install, hoping to stave off any corrosion issues down the road.
k
Jerimiah Johnson
Newbie
will do!I think I've learned where there all at during this last month 
Rockmeister
TY Advertiser
- Joined
- Feb 7, 2007
- Messages
- 2,189
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- NE Indiana
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- www.yamaheater.com
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- Snowmobile
- 2007 Attak - LOVE my sled!!!
Yes, contact cleaner can eat many plastics, it is a cleaning solvent, not really a water dispersant.
The fuse very well could be your problem, I doubt it hurt your display panel.
Get a multi-pack of the mini blade fuses, use what you need and put the rest in your tool pouch for spares.
Silicone spray and re-install the connector on the back of the instrument cluster also.
Most likely, you still have water in the starter relay, it freezes and then wont work.
Believe there are two of them, one is under the panel at your right knee.
Soak all the relays by your knee with silicone, meaning INSIDE the relay and the connections.
Follow the big red wire from your starter, it will go directly to the other relay, it may or may not be possible to spray silicone INTO this relay, it may have to be replaced, but would heat it and soak it with silicone first.
Back to what I stated when you first asked, soak EVERYTHING that moves and is electrical with silicone when it is warm and definitely thawed out.
This can be a pain, but until you do, you will chase gremlins for a loooong time.
The fuse very well could be your problem, I doubt it hurt your display panel.
Get a multi-pack of the mini blade fuses, use what you need and put the rest in your tool pouch for spares.
Silicone spray and re-install the connector on the back of the instrument cluster also.
Most likely, you still have water in the starter relay, it freezes and then wont work.
Believe there are two of them, one is under the panel at your right knee.
Soak all the relays by your knee with silicone, meaning INSIDE the relay and the connections.
Follow the big red wire from your starter, it will go directly to the other relay, it may or may not be possible to spray silicone INTO this relay, it may have to be replaced, but would heat it and soak it with silicone first.
Back to what I stated when you first asked, soak EVERYTHING that moves and is electrical with silicone when it is warm and definitely thawed out.
This can be a pain, but until you do, you will chase gremlins for a loooong time.
Jerimiah Johnson
Newbie
thanks!You say there's 2 starter relays?I've heated up and silicone the one under the hood.Will try to find the other one tommorow.
Jerimiah Johnson
Newbie
Back at it again!
Hello all.Just got back from working my 2 week hitch on the North Slope.Glad to be home as the temps were around -45 to -55 with the wind every night!
As of now I've got my carbs pulled,laying on the kitchen table(Don't tell the wife
)and the float bowls are off.I've got my can of carb cleaner handy and am planning on cleaning them.I'm wondering if anyone can give me any advice as I have not done this before and really don't want to get into them any further than I have to.What I'm hoping to achieve is to get rid of my mid range stutter.When I pulled the bowls I didn't find any varnish or sediment at all.In fact they look brand new.
Hello all.Just got back from working my 2 week hitch on the North Slope.Glad to be home as the temps were around -45 to -55 with the wind every night!
As of now I've got my carbs pulled,laying on the kitchen table(Don't tell the wife
)and the float bowls are off.I've got my can of carb cleaner handy and am planning on cleaning them.I'm wondering if anyone can give me any advice as I have not done this before and really don't want to get into them any further than I have to.What I'm hoping to achieve is to get rid of my mid range stutter.When I pulled the bowls I didn't find any varnish or sediment at all.In fact they look brand new.
Len Todd
TY 4 Stroke God
Welcome back home. I must say, it is a little chilly up there. 
I attached a carb figure below. This should help with parts ID, etc.
Remove the Floats and clean the needle valve and seat. You may want to first look at the floats the see if they are all hanging about the same, before you start.
Remove the Pilot Jet and clean it.
Remove the Starter and Main Jets and clean them.
From the top, (Don't loose the little o-rings under the edge of the covers.) remove the "Piston Valve (Slide)" and clean.
From the top. Remove the Needle Jet (be careful to not loose all the small parts associated with the needle jet and pay particular attention to orientation of the small parts as they come out)
Before reinstalling the jets, spray cleaner through all the holes and "channels" through the carb. Clean the area where the slide travels in the carb body. Spray through the Pilot Air Jet.
Put all the carbs back together and install the carb assembly.
Do you have access to a carb synchronizer (4 "channel" manometer. Two channel will work, with some friggin' around.) If you do, it would be a good time to synchronize the carbs.
You might want to consider adding a second fuel filter on the input to the Fuel Pump. This may help keep anything else from transmitting from the fuel tank to the carbs.
Good luck. Stay out of the cold for a while and let things thaw out!
I attached a carb figure below. This should help with parts ID, etc.
Remove the Floats and clean the needle valve and seat. You may want to first look at the floats the see if they are all hanging about the same, before you start.
Remove the Pilot Jet and clean it.
Remove the Starter and Main Jets and clean them.
From the top, (Don't loose the little o-rings under the edge of the covers.) remove the "Piston Valve (Slide)" and clean.
From the top. Remove the Needle Jet (be careful to not loose all the small parts associated with the needle jet and pay particular attention to orientation of the small parts as they come out)
Before reinstalling the jets, spray cleaner through all the holes and "channels" through the carb. Clean the area where the slide travels in the carb body. Spray through the Pilot Air Jet.
Put all the carbs back together and install the carb assembly.
Do you have access to a carb synchronizer (4 "channel" manometer. Two channel will work, with some friggin' around.) If you do, it would be a good time to synchronize the carbs.
You might want to consider adding a second fuel filter on the input to the Fuel Pump. This may help keep anything else from transmitting from the fuel tank to the carbs.
Good luck. Stay out of the cold for a while and let things thaw out!
Jerimiah Johnson
Newbie
Air box
Thanks Len,I pulled the carbs apart and they looked real good.didn't find alot of sediment or varnish anywhere.I haven't put them back on as of yet,so I've been sittting here going through things in my head.....and was wondering,having the air box off wouldn't contribute to my mid range stumbling problem would it?I did all of my testing with it off.Also how bout my coils.I pulled the rest of the wiring harness apart,warmed it up and siliconed it but I did not do the coils.Guess I figured that since it would start,they weren't the problem.
Thanks Len,I pulled the carbs apart and they looked real good.didn't find alot of sediment or varnish anywhere.I haven't put them back on as of yet,so I've been sittting here going through things in my head.....and was wondering,having the air box off wouldn't contribute to my mid range stumbling problem would it?I did all of my testing with it off.Also how bout my coils.I pulled the rest of the wiring harness apart,warmed it up and siliconed it but I did not do the coils.Guess I figured that since it would start,they weren't the problem.
Len Todd
TY 4 Stroke God
Air box must be on. Lots of times, people have reported running problems, when the air box is not quite on correctly, also. Actually, you could do damage to the engine w/o the air-box in place.
I assumed that you took off the coils and blew any water out of the Spark Plug access holes in the valve cover. If you didn't do that, that would be a good idea. Maybe even clean the coils with contact cleaner and put a dab of dielectric on the tips of the plugs.
You don't suppose that the cold submersion may have caused a spark plug to crack, do you? Might not hurt to check this, if the Air box replacement does not cure the problem.
I assumed that you took off the coils and blew any water out of the Spark Plug access holes in the valve cover. If you didn't do that, that would be a good idea. Maybe even clean the coils with contact cleaner and put a dab of dielectric on the tips of the plugs.
You don't suppose that the cold submersion may have caused a spark plug to crack, do you? Might not hurt to check this, if the Air box replacement does not cure the problem.
Jerimiah Johnson
Newbie
I got all of the water out of the spark plug holes when I pulled the plugs and blew out the cylinders,but I never did spray silicone up into the boots or unplug the coils at the wiring harness.after seeing that the carbs weren't dirty at all,the airbox is giving me hope.Oh well,I'm getting real familiar with my sled
