Educate me on Gas...07 Apex

[snowxwi]

I've seen on here to use 87 gas in my 07 Apex and to not waste money on higher grades.

Now here in WI most gas stations, even big name ones, are using 10% ethanol in their 87 and 89. IF I come to a gas station with this, do I take the 87 with 10% ethanol or the 91 with no ethanol added?

Or do I take the 87 with 10% ethanol and treat it with stabil-green right away?

I think this is my last stupid question...Thanks for always answering them

 

[kviper]

Absolutely no need for anything more than 87 in a pre 2011 Apex. Ethanol will not bother you and any thing higher than 87 is a waste of money and you will make a touch less power. If you are worried about storage for the summer siphon out the ethanol, put in premium and run it enough to get the premium through the system or do what ever you do normally for storage.

 

[Mooseman]

I'm not so sure about the "you will make a touch less power" comment as ethanol in itself makes less power. Quoting Wikipedia-Ethanol:

Ethanol (E100) consumption in an engine is approximately 51% higher than for gasoline since the energy per unit volume of ethanol is 34% lower than for gasoline.

So if my calculations are correct, by having 10% thanol would mean a 3.4% loss of power output from 1 gallon of E10. I had made the test between E10 and E0 in my truck and consistently lasted longer per tank which means pure gasoline makes more power. In a sled, we might not notice a big difference because of the engine size, tank size and the way we ride.

What I can tell you is that ever since E10 has been around, I have blown 4 or 5 two stroke engines where I had never before on stock sleds as it tends to lean out mixtures. On fuel injected engines, this would mean that the PCM would have to compensate with extra fuel.

Ethanol is evil

 

[newfie09xtx]

I never noticed a difference in power but my machine ran better on supreme gas. I also use supreme because of the ethenal in regular.

The owners manual for the nytro says to run 87 octane though :S

 

[kviper]

I highly doubt you will notice any power dif actually.

Two strokes are more sensitive to ethanol especially carbed.
You will have no problem's with 87 and 10% Ethanoll in a pre 2011 Apex and you will see no gain from premium.

 

[guardrail]

Wasn't there a problem with running higher octanes and piston rings sticking? If I remember correctly, higher octane gas burns cooler(slower). This motor is designed to run on 87 which runs hotter(faster) and burns more completely, When you run high octane for for long periods of time it can cause sticky rings and oil consumption.
I always ran 87 and never had a problem, the few times I had to run 93, I never noticed any performance gains.
Does anyone else remember this?

 

[kviper]

Higher octane fuel in itself as compared to lower does not make more power, excluding the addition of Ethanol. Higher octane slows the burn to control preignition from higher cylinder pressure's from increased compression or boost. If a motor is build for 87 octane than that is what it should run.
The thought that premium or higher octane fuel is better fuel is not necessarily true.
More important though would be to NOT run 87 in a motor designed to run 92.

 

[Mooseman]

Definitely. Like I said, the difference would be negligible. Also agree on using lower octane when high octane is called for but Yamaha was smart enough to put detonation sensors (at least on Phazers and Venture Lites/MP's) and deal with situations where you might be forced into using lower octane gas. The PCM will retard the timing if it detects detonation. Of course that would be at a loss of power.

Just one more thing about ethanol is that it is hygroscopic. It will absorb water and phase separate from the gas and go to the bottom of the tank. Something to be aware of if it's snowing or raining during refueling.

 

[rocky18]

Kviper... can you help me out here. What about 2011 and beyond Apex for fuel?..and in my case 2012 Vector. Many Thanks

 

[kviper]

I agree however between me and several of my close friends that ride Apexes, approximately 12 sled's since 06 none of us ever had an issue with 87 and 10% Ethanol, snowing while fueling or not. It will not be a problem and certainly would not justify buying premium. Weed eaters, chainsaws, or any thing with carborator's vented to atmosphere that sit for any period of time is a different story. I don't think the quality of gas is what it used to be in general as premium with no Ethanol does not have the shelf life that it used to either. We have a number of pump motor's that we run premium in with no Ethanol and they will all have float bowl's full of water by spring even after a good dose of sea foam. This was never a problem till a couple years ago so I think there is more to the equation than just Ethanol.

 

[kviper]

Kviper... can you help me out here. What about 2011 and beyond Apex for fuel?..and in my case 2012 Vector. Many Thanks

2011 and newer Apex's should run premium, 91 min I think it says. Not 100% sure on the 1050 injected Vector but I think they are 91 now as well. Check your operators manual, it should say and that is what you should run.

 

[rocky18]

Wow...very fast reply...I shouldn't be surprised though.... seeing as you ride an Apex. thanks

 

[judger101]

you are right ethanol has less btus than gas

 

[Soldier'spapa]

Reduced BTU's in E-10 does not mean using it will result in less torque or horsepower... it does mean reduced range (MPG).

Octane is ONLY a measurement of a given gas or gas ethanol blend's ability to resist knock (pre-ignition). The higher number does not necessarily indicate a better fuel.

 

[Rich Kay]

Absolutely no need for anything more than 87 in a pre 2011 Apex. Ethanol will not bother you and any thing higher than 87 is a waste of money and you will make a touch less power. If you are worried about storage for the summer siphon out the ethanol, put in premium and run it enough to get the premium through the system or do what ever you do normally for storage.

X2 on the above.....I have run 87 in my 07 apex since day one (over 10.000M) , stored it full with sta-bil (off season), ran it each and evey winter by keeping tank full at end of days ride with no problem what so ever. Dont over think this...... The newer sleds my say to for reasons needed but I still think its in part by folks not storeing the sled right and leave them laying around almost emty for periods of time during wiinter which will cause problems with moisture. I gave this the same thought and concern but by useing it (87/ ethanol) if used right ....no issues. Plus I ride with many other sleds 2 and 4 stroke (running 87) and no issues related to fuel.(all stock sleds)