gas mileage

[pat the rat]

hi guys. just snowchecked a phazer gt for my wife. hope she's gonna like it. just wondering if anyone knows what kind of gas mileage this thing will get,also i read that it prefers premium but will run on regular. is this true.

 

[XT500]

Yami rep told me 12 to 18mpg.

It will run on 87octane but you lose 4hp.

 

[BBM]

XT500

Why would the Phazer lose 4hp on regular unleaded?
In the specifications that is what they specify as the fuel type to use.
Where did you get your info on the fuel type?

 

[mmmkokanee]

theres a knock sensor or something that retards the timing causing an HP loss when using regular.

 

[pat the rat]

i'm going to run regular fuel in it even if ilose a few horsepower. were only trail riding at about 50 mph most of the time so it shouldnt be a problem. at the price of fuel, i wanted something economical , hope its better than my warrior. i get about 18 mpg consistantly so the phazer should run at around 20 mpg.

 

[XT500]

Like was said it has a high 12.4 compression ratio with a Knock Control System,always on and adjusting to the type and quality of the gas you put in it.
I also read you lose about 4hp on 87-octane and if the gas is of poor quality,to low of octane like old gas a warning light comes on.
It retards the timing, like was already said.

The Yami rep said gas milage would be between 12 to 18mpg depending on conditions and how you ride.He said it was a high revving engine and not to expect any more than that.

 

[BV1]

Hmmm I would expect it to be as good as the Apex.... Its only half the cylinders and displacement. How rich can you run it? And the revs arn't twice as high.

-Steve

 

[LazyBastard]

Hmmm I would expect it to be as good as the Apex.... Its only half the cylinders and displacement. How rich can you run it? And the revs arn't twice as high.

-Steve

Are you sure it doesn't rev twice as high? At full out on the lake, they might be spinning similar speeds, but that RX will be moving a LOT FASTER. Take that full out speed and increase both track speed and engine speed linearly until it is moving ~120 mph. How fast is the engine spinning now? Probably pretty fast, 20000?

 

[HYFLYR]

I say it will burn quite a bit of gas if your trying to saty with the big boys for the simple fact your going to be pushing it a lot harder to make the same speeds the Apex is making at a lower RPM. But hey, its still better than a 2 stroke. Later

 

[phaz4]

I say it will burn quite a bit of gas if your trying to saty with the big boys for the simple fact your going to be pushing it a lot harder to make the same speeds the Apex is making at a lower RPM. But hey, its still better than a 2 stroke. Later

if smaller motors burn more gas to keep up then v8 cars should be getting 35 mpg and little cars should get 15.

if the phazer is keeping up that means the the apex is running at less than full power. to keep up the phazer would need equal or less energy (gas) to what the apex is using.

the phazer is smaller/lighter so it should require less power for the same speed. the small motor will waste less energy to make the same power. (unless the engineers that designed it screwed up ...which is doubtful).

 

[pat the rat]

i agree with your theory.its true that smaller, lighter vehicules waste less energy. it would not make sense that the smaller motor would cost more to operate. if it gets the same mileage as my warrior, i'll be satisfied, if it does better thats bonus.

 

[LazyBastard]

if smaller motors burn more gas to keep up then v8 cars should be getting 35 mpg and little cars should get 15.

That is not a correct analogy, most road cars are WAY overpowered for the speeds that they go. This can actually result in them spinning TOO SLOW, which causes them to use MORE GAS to keep down.

if the phazer is keeping up that means the the apex is running at less than full power. to keep up the phazer would need equal or less energy (gas) to what the apex is using.

You might want to take a look at some fuel consumption curves for various engines, you will find that the relationship between fuel consumption and power is exponential, so to make the same power, that smaller engine would actually have to burn MORE gas.

the phazer is smaller/lighter so it should require less power for the same speed. the small motor will waste less energy to make the same power. (unless the engineers that designed it screwed up ...which is doubtful).

Really not significant. It is smaller and lighter, but the real limitation is in the friction in the rear suspension and the wind resistance. The front area of the two sleds are equal, and they are both 121" rear skids (which therefore have about the same levels of friction), so the amount of power required to sustain any particuar speed is approximately the same. If this was not so, then the phazer would be able to reach just as high of speeds as apex/rx1 even though it has a smaller engine. For this same reason, apex/rx1 are able to run faster than other sleds, even though those other sleds have a higher power to weight ratio.

 

[phaz4]

if smaller motors burn more gas to keep up then v8 cars should be getting 35 mpg and little cars should get 15.

That is not a correct analogy, most road cars are WAY overpowered for the speeds that they go. This can actually result in them spinning TOO SLOW, which causes them to use MORE GAS to keep down.

if the phazer is keeping up that means the the apex is running at less than full power. to keep up the phazer would need equal or less energy (gas) to what the apex is using.

You might want to take a look at some fuel consumption curves for various engines, you will find that the relationship between fuel consumption and power is exponential, so to make the same power, that smaller engine would actually have to burn MORE gas.

the phazer is smaller/lighter so it should require less power for the same speed. the small motor will waste less energy to make the same power. (unless the engineers that designed it screwed up ...which is doubtful).

Really not significant. It is smaller and lighter, but the real limitation is in the friction in the rear suspension and the wind resistance. The front area of the two sleds are equal, and they are both 121" rear skids (which therefore have about the same levels of friction), so the amount of power required to sustain any particuar speed is approximately the same. If this was not so, then the phazer would be able to reach just as high of speeds as apex/rx1 even though it has a smaller engine. For this same reason, apex/rx1 are able to run faster than other sleds, even though those other sleds have a higher power to weight ratio.

believe whatever you want.

your conclusions make very little sense to me and i spent several years designing engine controls and creating non-linear engine models. if you want to produce the fuel consumption charts for the phazer motor and post them i will be happy to explain to you how to interpret them.

the only reason i bother trying to say anything in these topics is because of the total B$ some people are posting. i tried to post something that i thought would make sense to non-engineers.

if there is a specific question, i would be happy to try to explain further.

 

[LazyBastard]

As I was saying... do the research first BEFORE you speak through your as$. Then you *might* actually know what you're talking about rather than just making up BS. Its funny that whenever someone like you goes on the defensive, suddenly they're an expert on the subject and nobody elses GENUINE knowledge and experience is valid.

 

[phaz4]

As I was saying... do the research first BEFORE you speak through your as$. Then you *might* actually know what you're talking about rather than just making up BS. Its funny that whenever someone like you goes on the defensive, suddenly they're an expert on the subject and nobody elses GENUINE knowledge and experience is valid.

IMHO with respect, i don't need to be reminded to do research.

the main reason i mentioned being an engineer is becasue if you know what you are talking about, i wanted to give you the opportunity to realize that i am capable of understanding anything you say. if you are going to talk about performance curves, you shouldn't assume that other people haven't seen them to. based upon what you wrote, i am not sure if you are misinterpreting the information you saw or if you are intentionally distorting your statements to attack other points.

if you just take the first statement you made, it doesn't make sense to me. if bigger motors in cars get worse mpg because they are runnig slower ("too slow"?), then why can't the same thing be true for sleds? at least, it must be true under some conditions. but, you said my analogy is invalid.

there are similar problems with everything else you said. the entire tone is to deny any advantage of small motors and play down the disadvantages of large motors/sleds. if people want to have an open and realistic discussion about fuel mileage, there has to be credit given where credit is due.

there are only 2 reasons i can see for a phazer getting worse mpg then a bigger sled...

- bad design/manufacturing
- running WFO 24/7

if you think you will have to run it WFO, don't buy one.