YETI
Extreme
Air just a quick thought have you tightened your limiter straps down. to mush to read back through to see if you said that before.
eric3793
Pro
This is an excellent concept. We have built three 4'X12' drags that are scaled down versions of commercial drags that some of the large clubs use to smooth trails. Rather than put any weight on the VK, we made short plastic skis bolted to the front corners and use a typical sled hitch. It works well and the hitch is strong enough to push the drag in reverse. The rear pan is tilted front and rear to pack the trail and allow backing up to reverse direction.
The problem we have is speed.
The VK has no problem grooming at 20 to 25 mph but the trail quality suffers with "chunks" flying in the air and littering the trail. It still makes for a smooth ride but it looks sloppy. 10mph is much better but with 10 miles to groom, 20mph is a time saver and more fun especially in fresh snow.
Grooming and making a better drag is all part of the winter adventure. It really pays off when hauling lots of gear to camp on a nice smooth trail.
The problem we have is speed.
The VK has no problem grooming at 20 to 25 mph but the trail quality suffers with "chunks" flying in the air and littering the trail. It still makes for a smooth ride but it looks sloppy. 10mph is much better but with 10 miles to groom, 20mph is a time saver and more fun especially in fresh snow.Grooming and making a better drag is all part of the winter adventure. It really pays off when hauling lots of gear to camp on a nice smooth trail.
air19
Pro
YETI said:
Yes the limiter straps are tight. Thanks.
air19
Pro
eric3793 said:
I assume you mean the rear pan is higher in the front and lower in the rear. That way a lot of snow can move through that area and it gets compressed by the end. But it would make it harder to back up.
Is your groomer the other way around, rear pan lower in the front and higher in the rear?
eric3793
Pro
The pan is a 2'X4' 1/8" steel plate with equal 3" brakes (45 degree) front and rear. This leaves a flat 18" X 48" surface contacting the snow. The pan fills with snow in about 100' of grooming which packs the trail. You are probably correct in that a pan higher in the front would pack better. I took a bunch of photos of a new commercial Mogul Master drag towed by a mid-size Tucker. I assumed that pan was flat. Then I went to work on a CAD drawing to get the scale correct. The other materials are 1" pipe framing and 1/4" flat stock for "blades". I did not build the elaborate spring hinge mounts for the blades so if you hit a stump or rock, the impact is absorbed by the hitch spring somewhat and the VK stops...or you break something. The goal was to have a design light enough for one man to pick it up if needed. We lean them against a tree when not in use during the winter and store them under the camp during the summer. They are probably 200 lbs. max.
A poor photo attached... he's going too fast.
It's really gratifying when two of us are pulling drags out to where we park and then go back over a trail that looks almost like a Tucker did the job. We try to ride left and right leaving a small divider in the center on the way out. The return trip is more center trail where most folks ride. There's not much traffic so a little grooming holds up well between storms. We even get some cross country skiers that end up at camp! I brought out the skis myself last year and quickly realized why I enjoy my sled so much.
A poor photo attached... he's going too fast.
It's really gratifying when two of us are pulling drags out to where we park and then go back over a trail that looks almost like a Tucker did the job. We try to ride left and right leaving a small divider in the center on the way out. The return trip is more center trail where most folks ride. There's not much traffic so a little grooming holds up well between storms. We even get some cross country skiers that end up at camp! I brought out the skis myself last year and quickly realized why I enjoy my sled so much.
Attachments
tolson
Newbie
I like the ski dolley. Can't wait to hear how it works with the G2!
air19
Pro
Ski Dolly pulling the G2
Today I was out grooming for about 6 hours, covering about 40 miles, using the Ski Dolly pulling my G2.
It was the best steering day I have had with the G2. The VK Pro had about 5 lbs of tongue weight from the Ski Dolly, compared to it's usual 60 lbs of tongue weight with the G2 and the tracksetter. I could tell it was going to be a great steering day half way through because my arms were starting to get tired. I have my suspension adjusted with such a forward emphasis, that without the usual big tongue weight countering it, I felt it in the arms. I'll take the weight work out anytime, knowing that I could hit all my turns with ease.
The flip side is that on my two biggest hills I had less traction and I got stuck the first time through them. The second time I got a running start and got through fine. Pretty obvious after the fact, without all that tongue weight pushing the rear down and giving me super traction, I was going to have less pulling power today.
With the Sky Dolly, I now have a reason to back off on some of my suspension adjustments. Of course this is a great example of why I would love an easier way to adjust the suspension on these utility sleds from day to day. I could see wanting to change it based on the snow conditions as well as what grooming implements I was going to use.
When I did get stuck on the big hill the first time, the Ski Dolly was very helpful to have compared to just the G2. I was able to backup and jackknife it to try a different track up the hill. Didn't work because I didn't have any momentum, but it was cool to be able to try it so quickly from the seat of the sled without any unhitching/re-hitching. So I turned the Ski Dolly and the G2 around and pulled them back down hill to try again. With the Ski Dolly it provided a big lever arm on the G2 and it was a lot easier to turn everything around.
Later I got stuck on a smaller hill, again forgot to get any momentum. I unhitched the Ski Dolly and the G2, moved the VK Pro forward about 10 feet where I was almost at the top of the hill, pulled out a 20 foot towing strap I had and from my new position I was able to pull the G2 up the remainder of the hill. The Ski Dolly was critical here because it kept the nose of the G2 up in the air. Otherwise you can't pull the G2 with a cable, with all it's tongue weight it just digs into the snow.
So after my first 40 miles of intensive use I think this Ski Dolly will be quite useful. Never thought I would have to adjust my suspension to the rear again, but now I have a reason to.
Here are a couple of pictures of the VK Pro, Ski Dolly, and G2. One of them has the Ski Dolly jackknifed slightly, and another has my towing cable out.
Today I was out grooming for about 6 hours, covering about 40 miles, using the Ski Dolly pulling my G2.
It was the best steering day I have had with the G2. The VK Pro had about 5 lbs of tongue weight from the Ski Dolly, compared to it's usual 60 lbs of tongue weight with the G2 and the tracksetter. I could tell it was going to be a great steering day half way through because my arms were starting to get tired. I have my suspension adjusted with such a forward emphasis, that without the usual big tongue weight countering it, I felt it in the arms. I'll take the weight work out anytime, knowing that I could hit all my turns with ease.
The flip side is that on my two biggest hills I had less traction and I got stuck the first time through them. The second time I got a running start and got through fine. Pretty obvious after the fact, without all that tongue weight pushing the rear down and giving me super traction, I was going to have less pulling power today.
With the Sky Dolly, I now have a reason to back off on some of my suspension adjustments. Of course this is a great example of why I would love an easier way to adjust the suspension on these utility sleds from day to day. I could see wanting to change it based on the snow conditions as well as what grooming implements I was going to use.
When I did get stuck on the big hill the first time, the Ski Dolly was very helpful to have compared to just the G2. I was able to backup and jackknife it to try a different track up the hill. Didn't work because I didn't have any momentum, but it was cool to be able to try it so quickly from the seat of the sled without any unhitching/re-hitching. So I turned the Ski Dolly and the G2 around and pulled them back down hill to try again. With the Ski Dolly it provided a big lever arm on the G2 and it was a lot easier to turn everything around.
Later I got stuck on a smaller hill, again forgot to get any momentum. I unhitched the Ski Dolly and the G2, moved the VK Pro forward about 10 feet where I was almost at the top of the hill, pulled out a 20 foot towing strap I had and from my new position I was able to pull the G2 up the remainder of the hill. The Ski Dolly was critical here because it kept the nose of the G2 up in the air. Otherwise you can't pull the G2 with a cable, with all it's tongue weight it just digs into the snow.
So after my first 40 miles of intensive use I think this Ski Dolly will be quite useful. Never thought I would have to adjust my suspension to the rear again, but now I have a reason to.
Here are a couple of pictures of the VK Pro, Ski Dolly, and G2. One of them has the Ski Dolly jackknifed slightly, and another has my towing cable out.
Attachments
tolson
Newbie
Did you have the teeth down cutting at all? Did everything follow smoothly in a straight line when the teeth were down and setting tracks?
Jack_Shaft
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
Interesting concept air19, the intermediate ski dolly appears to be helping you quite a bit. Keep us posted.
air19
Pro
tolson said:
Hey Tolson,
Yes I was running with the teeth down most of the time. It's been 10 days since we had that 12 inch dump of snow and not much since.
If I kept the depth of cut at about 1/2" into the snow which is usually the way I try to run it, then everything carved the turns fine. The Ski Dolly and G2 ran more inside on the turns than yesterday's Ski Dolly and Blue Trailer combination, but not bad, and not as inside as the gooseneck hitch.
If I got real aggressive or hit something unexpected and the teeth really dug in, then the train started to straighten out on a line from the hitch on the snowmobile back to the G2.
So this combination takes more attention to get it right and make sure the teeth are working the surface and not digging for gold. But that's how I usually work. I would rather do two passes at that 1/2" depth than try one pass at a 2" depth. The trail looks much better in the end and I haven't dug up a bunch of chunks.
air19
Pro
Ski Scratchers
I had a solid grooming run today in tough conditions.
In Vermont we just had a couple of days of melt down - temperatures above 40 degrees F, and an inch of rain. Fortunately we have a solid base and this weather just made a mess on the surface.
I was running with the VK Pro pulling my Ski Dolly and my big G2 groomer behind. I ran the G2 with it's 60 teeth down about 1/2" to 1" in the hardpack snow the entire time. I went for five hours straight never taking a break, except for one tree down that had to be cut up. I had both my radiator fans on all the time and I never had a trace of overheating - good job VK Pro.
This was also tough test in terms of pulling power with all those teeth pulling through a very hard surface. The VK Pro was at its best, pulling like a draft horse. I was even pulling up all my hills with my grooming teeth in the surface - now that's something I could never do with my '99 Skandic SWT.
I took a couple of pictures at the end of the grooming run to show everyone the benefit of snow scratchers. Now that's the brand name for mine and they work great because they are flexible and I can go in reverse without thinking about them. Of course they cost $80. And they come with lousy lock washers, so I lost one a week ago. I found the washers so I'm hoping in the spring the scratcher will be nearby that location. Anyways I have two pictures showing one side where the scratcher is and all the slush built up around the track, and that scratcher isn't even mounted optimally. It's back in the middle of the track where there was already a hole in the rail and I didn't want to weaken things any more by putting in another hole. The other picture shows the other side where I used to have the other scratcher. So here's the side by side comparison of running on hardpack for five hours.
I had a solid grooming run today in tough conditions.
In Vermont we just had a couple of days of melt down - temperatures above 40 degrees F, and an inch of rain. Fortunately we have a solid base and this weather just made a mess on the surface.
I was running with the VK Pro pulling my Ski Dolly and my big G2 groomer behind. I ran the G2 with it's 60 teeth down about 1/2" to 1" in the hardpack snow the entire time. I went for five hours straight never taking a break, except for one tree down that had to be cut up. I had both my radiator fans on all the time and I never had a trace of overheating - good job VK Pro.
This was also tough test in terms of pulling power with all those teeth pulling through a very hard surface. The VK Pro was at its best, pulling like a draft horse. I was even pulling up all my hills with my grooming teeth in the surface - now that's something I could never do with my '99 Skandic SWT.
I took a couple of pictures at the end of the grooming run to show everyone the benefit of snow scratchers. Now that's the brand name for mine and they work great because they are flexible and I can go in reverse without thinking about them. Of course they cost $80. And they come with lousy lock washers, so I lost one a week ago. I found the washers so I'm hoping in the spring the scratcher will be nearby that location. Anyways I have two pictures showing one side where the scratcher is and all the slush built up around the track, and that scratcher isn't even mounted optimally. It's back in the middle of the track where there was already a hole in the rail and I didn't want to weaken things any more by putting in another hole. The other picture shows the other side where I used to have the other scratcher. So here's the side by side comparison of running on hardpack for five hours.
Attachments
Jack_Shaft
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
Those scratchers sure do work well, I use them and swear by them, but your pics of one side vs. the other are striking.
Those look like slidekicks...?!
Those look like slidekicks...?!
air19
Pro
Jack_Shaft said:
Yes they are this year's slidekicks. I had last year's and they didn't last long. But this year's are much better. It's just the locking nuts that are problematic. I'll re-install the one I have with loctite, and hopefully find the other.
I hadn't planned on the side by side comparison. I lost the left side a week ago. But when I got back to the barn and saw the difference after a five hour ride I had to grab the camera.
air19
Pro
Cedar Logs
I don't just groom all the time on my VK Pro. For the last two weeks since we've been in a snow drought, I've been pulling in cedar logs for a big fencing project next summer.
I've been using my Ski Dolly on the front of my blue trailer and the combination works great. It is very handy to have this dolly/trailer combination with four skis on the snow. There are many times when I need to separate the trailer from the VK Pro. Having the dolly in between makes this very easy. With no tongue weight I can just lift it off, no matter how many logs are already on the trailer. With four skis on the snow it stays balanced the whole time. And sometime when I want to manuever it myself, that long tongue on the dolly makes this doable.
I've already included photos of the dolly, so here's one showing the results of a couple weeks of work. Did I say this VK Pro can pull - I know probably a hundred times in this thread already. What I forgot to take a picture of was the firewood pile. Usually the blue trailer is loaded with firewood and then cedar logs on top. I have actually been taking logs off the trailer because it gets too heavy for my trail base. The VK Pro has been able to pull any load I can fit into my blue trailer, but while I'm working I don't want to damage my ski trail base. Sometimes I'll notice while I'm pulling along that the trailer skis are sinking in too much so I have to lighten the load, otherwise I'm setting myself up for more grooming.
I don't just groom all the time on my VK Pro. For the last two weeks since we've been in a snow drought, I've been pulling in cedar logs for a big fencing project next summer.
I've been using my Ski Dolly on the front of my blue trailer and the combination works great. It is very handy to have this dolly/trailer combination with four skis on the snow. There are many times when I need to separate the trailer from the VK Pro. Having the dolly in between makes this very easy. With no tongue weight I can just lift it off, no matter how many logs are already on the trailer. With four skis on the snow it stays balanced the whole time. And sometime when I want to manuever it myself, that long tongue on the dolly makes this doable.
I've already included photos of the dolly, so here's one showing the results of a couple weeks of work. Did I say this VK Pro can pull - I know probably a hundred times in this thread already. What I forgot to take a picture of was the firewood pile. Usually the blue trailer is loaded with firewood and then cedar logs on top. I have actually been taking logs off the trailer because it gets too heavy for my trail base. The VK Pro has been able to pull any load I can fit into my blue trailer, but while I'm working I don't want to damage my ski trail base. Sometimes I'll notice while I'm pulling along that the trailer skis are sinking in too much so I have to lighten the load, otherwise I'm setting myself up for more grooming.
Attachments
air19
Pro
Maybe last grooming run done today
Weather conditions in Vermont are changing now. We are about to hit a couple of days in the 40s with freezing rain and after that most days in the 10 day forecast are above freezing.
We did a big push over the last two days while the conditions were good. Finished pulling in our cedar logs for fencing and other projects. Counted 190 logs pulled in total this winter. With two of us working we got better at getting the big ones levered up and into the trailer.
When all the cedar was in, I took the VK and my groomer back out for about 2 hours fixing up all the trails that had deep ski ruts from the trailer. I made about six passes over all the affected trails and as I got them up to my level of perfection again (which is crazy), I got to thinking this may be the last grooming run of the season. And I'm going to miss the sound of the VK torqueing it out up my hills with all my groomer teeth ripping through some hardpack behind me.
I take the VK into the shop next Monday for servicing. Here is what's on the list this year: 1) HELP with Reverse, 2) replace the ignition switch which is not turning the engine off all the time (this will be my second ignition switch), 3) adjustments to the parking brake and steering, 4) fix my squeeling belt that howls if you let it idle for more than 15 seconds, and 5) basic service.
Besides my major issue with Reverse, this is a pretty easy list given all the work the VK has done for me this year. I've done 32 full days of grooming with about a quarter of those being extreme days when I had the teeth down in the snow churning through hardpack. And probably another 10 full days pulling wood loads all day.
After two years of use, I know the sled pretty good now. No cooling issues this year. I ran my second radiator/fan every day, and on extreme days I ran both radiators/fans. With my super wide Flexi-Skis I fixed my stability problems. I can run on the edge of my trails whenever I want now without worrying about a big tip. The reverse issue is still a big pain when I'm stuck on any type of tilt. But on the flats if it doesn't pop in, I've developed a new technique of going forward a couple feet with the sled and at the last moment before it is about to stop but while it still has a little forward momentum, then I drop it into reverse. Haven't ground the gears yet.
I talked to my service manager about the reverse issue. They will check a long list of adjustments, but said that this isn't just a VK issue. Yamaha said it affects a number of their sleds and the bummer is there is no solution. Yamaha has just told the dealers to check all related adjustments.
Weather conditions in Vermont are changing now. We are about to hit a couple of days in the 40s with freezing rain and after that most days in the 10 day forecast are above freezing.
We did a big push over the last two days while the conditions were good. Finished pulling in our cedar logs for fencing and other projects. Counted 190 logs pulled in total this winter. With two of us working we got better at getting the big ones levered up and into the trailer.
When all the cedar was in, I took the VK and my groomer back out for about 2 hours fixing up all the trails that had deep ski ruts from the trailer. I made about six passes over all the affected trails and as I got them up to my level of perfection again (which is crazy), I got to thinking this may be the last grooming run of the season. And I'm going to miss the sound of the VK torqueing it out up my hills with all my groomer teeth ripping through some hardpack behind me.
I take the VK into the shop next Monday for servicing. Here is what's on the list this year: 1) HELP with Reverse, 2) replace the ignition switch which is not turning the engine off all the time (this will be my second ignition switch), 3) adjustments to the parking brake and steering, 4) fix my squeeling belt that howls if you let it idle for more than 15 seconds, and 5) basic service.
Besides my major issue with Reverse, this is a pretty easy list given all the work the VK has done for me this year. I've done 32 full days of grooming with about a quarter of those being extreme days when I had the teeth down in the snow churning through hardpack. And probably another 10 full days pulling wood loads all day.
After two years of use, I know the sled pretty good now. No cooling issues this year. I ran my second radiator/fan every day, and on extreme days I ran both radiators/fans. With my super wide Flexi-Skis I fixed my stability problems. I can run on the edge of my trails whenever I want now without worrying about a big tip. The reverse issue is still a big pain when I'm stuck on any type of tilt. But on the flats if it doesn't pop in, I've developed a new technique of going forward a couple feet with the sled and at the last moment before it is about to stop but while it still has a little forward momentum, then I drop it into reverse. Haven't ground the gears yet.
I talked to my service manager about the reverse issue. They will check a long list of adjustments, but said that this isn't just a VK issue. Yamaha said it affects a number of their sleds and the bummer is there is no solution. Yamaha has just told the dealers to check all related adjustments.
