Highest Speeds on Sidewinder/Thundercat

[Fast]

As my data log shows my sled makes just over 19 psi boost as well...lol....just 30 mph slower then you "Mach Run Masters"
Just the 300hp header tune, no wastegate or turbo mods on my SW as well.

What muffler are you running? Do you run a cold air intake?

 

[Turboflash]

Here's one of my data logs...lol...no where near the speeds Fleecer or other members have run.
My sled can easily run into the mid 120s on the GPS where it runs out of gear, which I am surprised with as is has a 141 x 1.75" Back Country track!
Hurricane 300 Header tune
I am pretty happy with its performance for my use anyway.

Just curious, your AFR is safe 11.8 but your fuel multiplier is 112.8

Here's one of my data logs...lol...no where near the speeds Fleecer or other members have run.
My sled can easily run into the mid 120s on the GPS where it runs out of gear, which I am surprised with as is has a 141 x 1.75" Back Country track!
Hurricane 300 Header tune
I am pretty happy with its performance for my use anyway.
View attachment 180671

Just curious, on this log, your AFR is a safe 11.8 but your fuel multiplier is 112.8. Does that mean ECU is adding 12% to maintain target AFR? How much can it add? What is limit for multiplier? Or is there no limit?
Is the goal to try and keep multiplier close to zero? I assume that means adding or subtracting fuel pressure?

 

[sideshowBob]

Just curious, your AFR is safe 11.8 but your fuel multiplier is 112.8

Just curious, on this log, your AFR is a safe 11.8 but your fuel multiplier is 112.8. Does that mean ECU is adding 12% to maintain target AFR? How much can it add? What is limit for multiplier? Or is there no limit?
Is the goal to try and keep multiplier close to zero? I assume that means adding or subtracting fuel pressure?

The closed loop is obviously auto tuning the fuel to match Hurricanes target AFR for the 300 header tune. Without closed loop my sled would be running lean. I already have the fuel pressure raised from stock 43 psi key on to 48 psi key on. From what I have seen on my logs, the closed loop will add close to 25 % more fuel if required to meet the tunes Target AFR as mine was doing that and indicating higher AFRs prior to me raising the fuel pressure. Dave at Hurricane as well as Mike Knapp have indicated my sled is a bit of an anomaly with the boost it produces with the header and required fuel to meet the target safe AFR so it may not be typical. Obviously equipment changes and weather conditions have a bearing on the sleds fuel requirements differences from the vendors baseline parmeters and that is one of the reasons I am a big fan of the closed loop system.
As a side note....since adding the header, the Hurricane header tunes, and closed loop I have never seen dash flash detonation warning.

 

[KnappAttack]

Just curious, your AFR is safe 11.8 but your fuel multiplier is 112.8

Just curious, on this log, your AFR is a safe 11.8 but your fuel multiplier is 112.8. Does that mean ECU is adding 12% to maintain target AFR? How much can it add? What is limit for multiplier? Or is there no limit?
Is the goal to try and keep multiplier close to zero? I assume that means adding or subtracting fuel pressure?

Jon, Bob has shared his logs with me and basically his sled is a freak out East like this, he also has hard parts on the machine the tune was not designed for, you know how that goes... It pulls more boost and makes more power than the average machine would out here in MN. He lives on the Eastern side of the country, and I know from my racing days that when you get beyond Michigan and especially when you get into the eastern seaboard, the air gets really good out there. Machines just plain go quicker and faster. Ultimately they pickup 2 tenths on the timers in 660 foot when you tune for the better air. They are closer to sea level and I also suspect they air has more oxygen content out there too, not sure exactly what it is, but every time I got into the main part of MI or further east, I'd have to really richen things up and throw a bit of clutch to a machine for the better air vs running in MN or WI area of the country. I've also had people come from out east to test with me on my timers here and wonder where their performance went as they were down 2 tenths or more here at home. One fella was running a 1250 Hooper Cat or some big engine, and couldn't understand why it was so slow here off the trailer, after testing with him for the whole day I got his 2 tenths + back in worse air, but he wore the engine out in the process, The pistons and rings were shot! the exhaust ports were so wide they ate the rings up and wore the edges of the exhaust port with up by the end of the day! Not what Id call od design build on that engine by any means. Regardless, he just couldn't get it thru his head that coming West would have lost him 2 + tenths. Exactly the reason that when we went racing East of WI I'd go a week early to dial in for the better air conditions. It cost me a race the first time I went to MI racing, and I just couldn't wrap my head around why I was so lean and couldn't feed the engine enough fuel or what was so different in MI and further East. From that point on I swore it wouldn't happen again and a week of testing was needed when going East. There is just something so good in the air out East, I think because it contains more oxygen from the trees or something.

Just goes to show how important data logging is to see how things are working when have parts on the sled it wasn't designed with or designed for when living on the ragged edge.

 

[KnappAttack]

Bringing this post back up after a tumultuous season, that ended well after much strife and frustration. First, a little back story....

Last winter i bought the wife a used 22 Thundercat with TD header tunes and a gen 2 header. The motor is stock and has never had a wrench on it. The turbo is stock, the wheel is stock, and the wastegate is stock with no boost locker of any sort. The intercooler is stock and the muffler is a 2.5 SQ. I did however change the jackshaft on it, so I could bolt a set of Yamaha clutches.

This fall, I put a speed track on it and a hurricane boost tube. All winter I couldn't get any speed out of it. It would run 133 GPS at half throttle, but wide open would hit a wall at 142 and refuse to go more. My 25 winder with no studs would smoke this thing and I couldn't figure out why?

Then......I read a post here by my favorite buddy Turbo Flash pointing out issues with the Hurricane boost tube. Sure enough, mine was melted too. (I won't beat a dead horse here as the boost tube has been discussed elsewhere and I'm over it. ) At any rate, I tried to buy a stock boost tube but none of the local dealers had one available. Luckily, I had kept the piece that I had cut off. I took a section of radiator hose, joined the 2 pieces together, put a hose clamp on either side and slapped it back together in the interim.

I went out and on the railbed for some testing and put down a pass of 148 GPS. My best run groomed trail on snow up till now was 147, so I felt the thunder was where it should be.

I had heard through the grapevine that the big boys in the area would be racing on a lake about 20 min north of me, so upon my return, I loaded the sled in the trailer and hightailed it there.

We never get ice conditions in Northern Maine, as usually it is always snowing. Due to recent rains, when I arrived at the lake, it looked like a skating rink. The ice was blue, hard, and smooth. In all my years of racing, i've have never seen such hero conditions like this. I did 2 runs with a best of 156 GPS. This was done at stock ride height with a stock seat. The sled is/was how I ride it down the trail.

Caveat: I'm not trying to sell anything, I don't own a shop, and I'm not a dealer looking for work. I merely want to share what is possible with an off the shelf tune, and a boatload of ambition.

Cheers.....

Excellent work Glenn! Thats cooking with gas...

 

[Fleecer]

Excellent work Glenn! Thats cooking with gas...

Thanks Mike!!

 

[Doc Harley]

Fleecer, please forgive me...are you utilizing a Sidewinder primary, or is it a 1st gen (older model)
unbelievable goal setting results. I can't even come to grips with what it's like going 150+. Heart racing adrenaline rush for sure.

stay safe...as best you can

 

[Fleecer]

What muffler are you running? Do you run a cold air intake?

Great question......I'm gonna eat a lot of crap here for what I'm about to say....but here goes.

I don't own a dyno, and never put any of my sleds on a dyno. I realize people that have and/or venders that sell mufflers, attest that the bigger the exit, and the least restrictive the exhaust, the more power the 998 makes. I cannot confirm or deny their claims. However, I've had over half a dozen mufflers of various exit sizes and manufacturers to include a bottom dump straight pipe, and a side exit straight pipe.

Through testing, I feel the 998 likes a little bit of back pressure on long pulls. The muffler gets cherry red and you can light a cigarette off of it, which would make one think it isn't flowing enough. However, the GPS reads bigger numbers for some reason. Call me crazy....but I ain't changing it!!

I run a TD 2.5 Super Quiet muffler. I've said it before and I'll say it again, it is the quietest, best performing muffler out there.

Yes, I run a cold air intake as well.

 

[Fleecer]

Fleecer, please forgive me...are you utilizing a Sidewinder primary, or is it a 1st gen (older model)
unbelievable goal setting results. I can't even come to grips with what it's like going 150+. Heart racing adrenaline rush for sure.

stay safe...as best you can

The primary is off a viper. I sent it to Thundershift Products and had Terry machine it for overdrive.

I've never met Terry or Tim and could not pick them out of a crowd of 3. I have nothing to gain or lose in what I'm about to say, but will be honest. The work Terry did in machining/balancing my primary was money very, very well spent. The only way to make speed with a winder is you HAVE to overdrive the clutches.

I realize this thinking goes against Olav Aaen's Clutching Handbook, and many will gripe that anything beyond 1:1 is inefficient, yada, yada. I can only make speed going deep into overdrive, running out of gear, and letting the rpm climb. I don't listen to anyone, I do what works.

My best speeds are at about 9550 rpm, just before hitting the hard limiter. Very dangerous to blow a belt here, as the engine will spin well over 10k before the limiter kicks in. But hey......drive fast and take chances!!

 

[Fleecer]

Just curious, your AFR is safe 11.8 but your fuel multiplier is 112.8

Just curious, on this log, your AFR is a safe 11.8 but your fuel multiplier is 112.8. Does that mean ECU is adding 12% to maintain target AFR? How much can it add? What is limit for multiplier? Or is there no limit?
Is the goal to try and keep multiplier close to zero? I assume that means adding or subtracting fuel pressure?

TF,
My other sled has closed loop and can add up to 125% or subtract 20%.

Yes, when setting the FPR, you aim for 100% and let the system add or pull % based on varying temperatures. I'm assuming it works the same for Hurricane Tuning.

I've had an O2 sensor let go, which puts the system in failsafe mode and an AFR of 8. This condition will peg the closed loop at 125%. One can always disable the closed loop with a flasher and go back to running the FPR manually if in a long trip and replacement sensor not available.

 

[Doc Harley]

Fleecer, I've purchased an RX1 primary, and I'd like to do as you say, verify operation & machine for overdrive.
If everything on the primary works as it should, I've been reviewing/considering getting the primary cryogenic therapy to enhance its rigidity

 

[twyztid]

Fleecer, I've purchased an RX1 primary, and I'd like to do as you say, verify operation & machine for overdrive.
If everything on the primary works as it should, I've been reviewing/considering getting the primary cryogenic therapy to enhance its rigidity
View attachment 180681

Nice looking RX-1 primary that you have there.

 

[Doc Harley]

Nice looking RX-1 primary that you have there.

Yeah, its one of those, "diamond in the rough" scenarios. Just couldn't walk away from this one.

 

[twyztid]

Yeah, its one of those, "diamond in the rough" scenarios. Just couldn't walk away from this one.

I recently bought 2 new Yamaha OEM "clutch repair kits" which are pretty much complete primary clutches for 16+ Viper, Venture, Vector, etc... but disassembled. I also run a 12 Vector primary on my 17 LTX SE, a 16 Viper primary on our 1st 25 LTX LE, and will be putting one of the "repair kit" primaries on the 2nd 25 LTX LE. All have Thunder Products overdrive cut.

I also have a couple other spare Japan clutches.

 

[Fleecer]

Fleecer, I've purchased an RX1 primary, and I'd like to do as you say, verify operation & machine for overdrive.
If everything on the primary works as it should, I've been reviewing/considering getting the primary cryogenic therapy to enhance its rigidity
View attachment 180681

I can't speak to Cryogenic Therapy? Last I heard, Walt Disney did that and he hasn't woken up yet!!

Wow.....the clutch in your pic sure is beautiful! A power hungry tuner like yourself should probably cut to the chase and get a TAPP?? If so, I'll buy that clutch in the pic!!