Hygear Torsion spring spacers

[bagadonitz]

Can I ask what you folks mean by "binding".

The reason I ask is I have a set of these Hygear Torsion Spaces installed. I took out my skid this week to stretch it and first thing I notice is on one side the hook that rotates up over the bottom of the torsion spring behind the wheel on the rail is destroyed as is the stock "adjuster block". There was no damage done to the track or anything else on that side and I don't remember any huge hits that would have cause this. I am a bigger guy so I'm wondering if what I'm seeing might be a symptom of this binding?

I'm going to get x-click to replace the adjusters but I'm wondering if I should go back to the stock spacers while I'm in there?

I don't get the binding idea either.
When your skid compresses, the lower long spring arm slides further or deeper through the hook at the wheel.
You would need to have the chassis over extend itslelf while flying through the air for the arm to pull out thus or pop off the top plastic adjuster.
Your photos show some strange wear going on there along the top of the lower hook. Was the spring arm sitting on top of the hook when you pulled your skid?

That isn't wear. It is broken right through the top of the hook as it should sit behind the wheel. The hook itself was actually about 160 degrees rotated forward with the long arm of the torsion spring just sitting on the shaft of the wheel.

My damage might be due to over extension of the skid as I did do a couple of 20 foot drop ins on my last ride last season and it very well could have happened then.

 

[thetruck454]

I decided against then,cause for the XTX they wanted $69. Thought it was a tad expensive for plastic

me too...especially since the only guarantee is correction of static ride height..
you could get the main shock recharged and progessively valved for less than that..

they might be good...and advertisers on here...but to me their prices seem lofty

It is very expensive for machined plastic, but the rear end sag bothers me enough to make me get them

 

[mach9]

That isn't wear. It is broken right through the top of the hook as it should sit behind the wheel. The hook itself was actually about 160 degrees rotated forward with the long arm of the torsion spring just sitting on the shaft of the wheel.

My damage might be due to over extension of the skid as I did do a couple of 20 foot drop ins on my last ride last season and it very well could have happened then.

Wow 20ft drops...
I was looking at my skid. And after your description.
It is unlikely or impossible that anyone could over extend a chassis as straps and linkages etc. prevent that from happening.

The lower hook. Yes you are right, it can rotate right around the idler wheel mount. If the hook was pushed forward hard enough by a big hit. Then it may get caught by the track. If all done violently enough, stuff would break.

Makes me want to have a look at some Doo SC chassis' or Polaris sikd frames to see if the lower hook system they use can rotate all the way around.

Cheers

 

[ahicks]

The lower hook. Yes you are right, it can rotate right around the idler wheel mount. If the hook was pushed forward hard enough by a big hit. Then it may get caught by the track. If all done violently enough, stuff would break.

Makes me want to have a look at some Doo SC chassis' or Polaris sikd frames to see if the lower hook system they use can rotate all the way around.

Cheers

The ProX and IQ use a pin to do what the hoop does (prevent over rotation) but work fine without the pin. I never run them. The Edge chassis uses a roller there (maybe the right way to do it?).

On the Yammi skid, if the hoop were rotated forward to allow that spring to be unloaded/released for one reason or another, then reassembled and ridden that way without rotating it back, I could see where it might be damaged right away? Under normal conditions, I doubt it would rotate forward on it's own..... FWIW

 

[skidooboy]

on my wifes mtx the holder rotated forward while riding. the first big bump hit after, speared the holder top and broke it off. the next unloading bump popped the spring out of the holder altogether, snapped out, up and around into the tunnel. this ruined the spring, and holder.

we wired the spring to the holder and carefully rode back to the trailer (about 5 miles). at the trailer, we had spares for the spring and holder. (thank god). otherwise that would have ruined a weeks riding in wyoming.

the holder if you "feel it" when rotated forward and back does have a "catch" in it to stay back and hold the spring in place. i am guessing it can "wear" and rotate forward in the right circumstances.

just keep an eye on things.

ski

 

[arteeex]

Can I ask what you folks mean by "binding".

The reason I ask is I have a set of these Hygear Torsion Spaces installed. I took out my skid this week to stretch it and first thing I notice is on one side the hook that rotates up over the bottom of the torsion spring behind the wheel on the rail is destroyed as is the stock "adjuster block". There was no damage done to the track or anything else on that side and I don't remember any huge hits that would have cause this. I am a bigger guy so I'm wondering if what I'm seeing might be a symptom of this binding?

I'm going to get x-click to replace the adjusters but I'm wondering if I should go back to the stock spacers while I'm in there?

I don't get the binding idea either.
When your skid compresses, the lower long spring arm slides further or deeper through the hook at the wheel.
You would need to have the chassis over extend itslelf while flying through the air for the arm to pull out thus or pop off the top plastic adjuster.
Your photos show some strange wear going on there along the top of the lower hook. Was the spring arm sitting on top of the hook when you pulled your skid?

For torsion springs coil binding happens when the ID is reduced enough during an applied load to clamp on the shaft passing through the center. When this happens coils farther down the line are not active and the load is carried by a smaller portion of the spring. Without the full complement of coil wraps active, the load will be concentrated in a smaller portion of the spring. Because the stress and associated strain can not be evenly distributed across multiple coils while it's bound on the shaft this generally leads to bent springs and overloaded parts.

It’s not a difficult calculation to determine minimum clearance requirements for torsion springs. I’ll dig out and old textbook and see what I can come up with shortly.

 

[mach9]

Not trying to dispute the binding issue.
Just looking at it for the sake of being more informed.

I would think Hygear should have enough space in there to allow for the spring to not bind even at or near full compression.
It looks like approx. 1/4" gap between the spring a spacer.

Plus if you are under bump comperssion.
It is both spring arms long and short that are in active action against each other.
So each side of the coil spring is actively tightening.
Thus an even distrubution of force around the spacer should occur.

 

[**sj**]

speaking to Hygear their explantion as to the benefits of these spacers are specifically this:

the most important thing regarding rear suspension ride is setting ride height...the binding or twisting of the spring allows more sit in or droop reducing the amount of usable suspension...the spacers keep the spring centered properly allowing it to work as it was designed i.e. spring force not being taxed by twisting or binding...there are also to a lesser degree benefits to the remaining "stroke" of the spring again with the spring force being fully usable and not taxed by these mechanical affects...

obviously it does nothing else as to ride where the spring / shock takes over..

 

[mach9]

Thanks for digging SJ

Hygear considers binding could occur when the coil portion of the spring is pushed or twisted on an angle across the frame tube when in use.

 

[ahicks]

Maybe this has been posted, and if so, sorry I managed to miss it. So just out of curiosity, has anyone ever measured exactly (before/after) what this shim has done for them regarding sag/ride height (or 1g as Alatalo likes to call it). I can tell you it didn't gain much regarding the Apex w/Procative application, maybe 1/2"?

 

[arteeex]

Plus if you are under bump comperssion.
It is both spring arms long and short that are in active action against each other.
So each side of the coil spring is actively tightening.
Thus an even distrubution of force around the spacer should occur.

This is true for static or very slow loading of the spring. However, with dynamic loading there's a wind-up that takes place before all of the spring can react to the same degree - especially if there's too much space over the mandrel.

The rule-of-thumb for a torsion spring mandrel size is to have 10% clearance when the spring is at its maximum deflection. For example, if the ID of the coil is 2.5" when the skid is fully compressed, you would want a mandrel diameter of no more than 2.25" to provide the 0.25" of clearance.

 

[cannondale27]

All this is theoretical since we dont have a Yamaha engineer here.I still think most of the sag other than from binding bushings is designed to be in there for better handling.If bottoming then that is a shock issue not springs.Of course there would be extremes that of course something would need to be done but as far as I can tell it would only be a over 250lb rider or double rider that would really need any type of rear spring help.

 

[stopdropanroll]

My F7 came stock with these type of spacers, I believe my ZR had then too, I have purchased a set for my XTX, not sure why Yamaha does not use them, I am no suspension expert just spitin out some info FWIW

 

[woolyviper]

Can I ask what you folks mean by "binding".

The reason I ask is I have a set of these Hygear Torsion Spaces installed. I took out my skid this week to stretch it and first thing I notice is on one side the hook that rotates up over the bottom of the torsion spring behind the wheel on the rail is destroyed as is the stock "adjuster block". There was no damage done to the track or anything else on that side and I don't remember any huge hits that would have cause this. I am a bigger guy so I'm wondering if what I'm seeing might be a symptom of this binding?

I'm going to get x-click to replace the adjusters but I'm wondering if I should go back to the stock spacers while I'm in there?

I don't get the binding idea either.
When your skid compresses, the lower long spring arm slides further or deeper through the hook at the wheel.
You would need to have the chassis over extend itslelf while flying through the air for the arm to pull out thus or pop off the top plastic adjuster.
Your photos show some strange wear going on there along the top of the lower hook. Was the spring arm sitting on top of the hook when you pulled your skid?

That isn't wear. It is broken right through the top of the hook as it should sit behind the wheel. The hook itself was actually about 160 degrees rotated forward with the long arm of the torsion spring just sitting on the shaft of the wheel.

My damage might be due to over extension of the skid as I did do a couple of 20 foot drop ins on my last ride last season and it very well could have happened then.

the shaft that the upper wheels ride on contacts them when bottoming - mine werent that bad, but there is a mark on one side where it hit.

 

[cannondale27]

If anyone wants a set of Hygear spacers $40 shipped US and I will donate $20 to site.These are off a Phazer so might be different?