NyTrOMaNIaC
TY 4 Stroke Master
I think my subframe is bent as well... 
I'll get to mine later on. First, we just finished checking one over that is DEFINITELY BENT, and we noticed a few things which brought me to the conclusion that mine probably is as well. OK, the one without a doubt that is bent, the left side shock sits quite a bit further back towards the rear of the upper a arm than the right side, and the right side shock is very close to being centered between the a arm. The right side spindle is angled normally, while the left side spindle is close to being straight up and down. Measurements show close to 2 inches in the difference between both sides, the tweaked side obviously the one back 2 inches. We raised the front end only off the ground to check things over, and immediately I noticed that the left ski (bent side)was pointing down, while the other was pointing up. (Both skis had the rubber bumpers flipped a while ago for the darting issue, and both skis were pointing up at the time) The owner noticed just recently that the sled was darting and pulling to the left quite a bit on the last ride, and I noticed right away that one shock was positioned differently inside the upper a arm than the other side. Needless to say, he was dumbfounded and disgusted ! So, as others are seeing, we noticed that the area where the a arms mount to the subframe is very thin, I'd give it a few millimeters in thickness at most. I don't think the problem lies in the tubular frame itself, but in this weak area where the a arms mount up. And for the record, the owner of this affected sled doesn't recall hitting anything hard, he is a very mild mannered rider who enjoys trail riding and does not bang around on a regular basis as this sled is intended for. So, the sled is going in for inspection tomorrow, but we already know what the problem is, the question is whether or not something will be done ? Getting back to my sled, both shocks are very close to being in the same position between the upper a arms, but that's where it ends. They're also closer to the rear of the upper a arms, where I remember them being perfectly centered when I first took delivery of the sled. Now going back to what we noticed on the other sled, I said that the affected side ski pointed down, thus causing poor handling and extreme darting. The left ski also sits close to 2 inches further back than the right, it is very obvious to the eye. On my last ride, I noticed that my Slydogs were darting quite a bit, something that I swore was alleviated when I installed these skis, so what gives ??? When we lowered the affected sled to the ground, we noticed that the front of the left ski (obviously) touched the ground first. Darting is a symptom of excess weight on the front of the ski, so that's why Bergstrom advised us all to flip the rubber bumpers around, to relieve pressure off the front and move it to the back. Mine is darting now, never did it before, and the shocks are pushed further back between the upper a arms, so therefore, I'm experiencing excess weight on the front of my skis due to changes in the sleds geometry. Now I can surely say with confidence that I have hit NOTHING but drifts and soft bumps, I've mostly ridden in powder, and I have never snagged a rock with my skis. My conclusion is that I've bent both sides very similarly towards the rear, so that's why I haven't noticed anything out of the ordinary, until I felt the darting and saw that my skis are now pointing down in the front. I was going to shim the bumpers today to deal with the darting until I thought it over and realized I shouldn't have to, so I'll wait until I talk with the dealer tomorrow and go from there. In the end, there's no doubt in my mind anymore that there's an issue with these subframes, and I am very disappointed to be honest. My recommendation is that Yamaha needs to beef up the mounting areas on these subframes, or we will all have to drive these BIG BUMP sleds like old women, either way, these sleds should take a lot more than this to cause such damage. In the meantime guys, check the positioning of your front shocks just to be sure. Even if they're consistent on both sides, it doesn't mean you don't have a problem, and if you still feel darting with the bumpers flipped around, more than likely you're feeling the ill effects of a tweaked subframe. You'll know it for sure if your shocks are not centered between the upper a arms. I'm going to closely look over a new one and compare, and I'll report back tomorrow after our trip to the dealer....
I'll get to mine later on. First, we just finished checking one over that is DEFINITELY BENT, and we noticed a few things which brought me to the conclusion that mine probably is as well. OK, the one without a doubt that is bent, the left side shock sits quite a bit further back towards the rear of the upper a arm than the right side, and the right side shock is very close to being centered between the a arm. The right side spindle is angled normally, while the left side spindle is close to being straight up and down. Measurements show close to 2 inches in the difference between both sides, the tweaked side obviously the one back 2 inches. We raised the front end only off the ground to check things over, and immediately I noticed that the left ski (bent side)was pointing down, while the other was pointing up. (Both skis had the rubber bumpers flipped a while ago for the darting issue, and both skis were pointing up at the time) The owner noticed just recently that the sled was darting and pulling to the left quite a bit on the last ride, and I noticed right away that one shock was positioned differently inside the upper a arm than the other side. Needless to say, he was dumbfounded and disgusted ! So, as others are seeing, we noticed that the area where the a arms mount to the subframe is very thin, I'd give it a few millimeters in thickness at most. I don't think the problem lies in the tubular frame itself, but in this weak area where the a arms mount up. And for the record, the owner of this affected sled doesn't recall hitting anything hard, he is a very mild mannered rider who enjoys trail riding and does not bang around on a regular basis as this sled is intended for. So, the sled is going in for inspection tomorrow, but we already know what the problem is, the question is whether or not something will be done ? Getting back to my sled, both shocks are very close to being in the same position between the upper a arms, but that's where it ends. They're also closer to the rear of the upper a arms, where I remember them being perfectly centered when I first took delivery of the sled. Now going back to what we noticed on the other sled, I said that the affected side ski pointed down, thus causing poor handling and extreme darting. The left ski also sits close to 2 inches further back than the right, it is very obvious to the eye. On my last ride, I noticed that my Slydogs were darting quite a bit, something that I swore was alleviated when I installed these skis, so what gives ??? When we lowered the affected sled to the ground, we noticed that the front of the left ski (obviously) touched the ground first. Darting is a symptom of excess weight on the front of the ski, so that's why Bergstrom advised us all to flip the rubber bumpers around, to relieve pressure off the front and move it to the back. Mine is darting now, never did it before, and the shocks are pushed further back between the upper a arms, so therefore, I'm experiencing excess weight on the front of my skis due to changes in the sleds geometry. Now I can surely say with confidence that I have hit NOTHING but drifts and soft bumps, I've mostly ridden in powder, and I have never snagged a rock with my skis. My conclusion is that I've bent both sides very similarly towards the rear, so that's why I haven't noticed anything out of the ordinary, until I felt the darting and saw that my skis are now pointing down in the front. I was going to shim the bumpers today to deal with the darting until I thought it over and realized I shouldn't have to, so I'll wait until I talk with the dealer tomorrow and go from there. In the end, there's no doubt in my mind anymore that there's an issue with these subframes, and I am very disappointed to be honest. My recommendation is that Yamaha needs to beef up the mounting areas on these subframes, or we will all have to drive these BIG BUMP sleds like old women, either way, these sleds should take a lot more than this to cause such damage. In the meantime guys, check the positioning of your front shocks just to be sure. Even if they're consistent on both sides, it doesn't mean you don't have a problem, and if you still feel darting with the bumpers flipped around, more than likely you're feeling the ill effects of a tweaked subframe. You'll know it for sure if your shocks are not centered between the upper a arms. I'm going to closely look over a new one and compare, and I'll report back tomorrow after our trip to the dealer....
bagadonitz
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
Take a measurement from plumb on you spindles. See what TurboJamie did in his post.
Keep track of these measurements. Every time I ride they change. Forward and backwards. The other day they were over 1/2" different between one and the other. The next day they were both identical but over but moved back the way I expect they should be.
I'm getting more nervous every time out.
Yamablog updated today and I hoped he would have something to say cause we all know this gets read but nothing but pictures of snow x and freestyle jumps.
Racing on Sunday, selling on Monday only works two weeks in a row if it doesn't fall apart on the trails on Tuesday.
Color me concerned. Yes I have bought it up with my dealer, no response yet.
As of now, mine are at 3 9/16" and 3 7/16". The shocks have about 15/16" and 13/16" respectively before they will impact the back of the top a arms. That is the skinning part of the shock tube, at rest. If it was compressed, it would be much less to the fat top collar of the float.
Keep track of these measurements. Every time I ride they change. Forward and backwards. The other day they were over 1/2" different between one and the other. The next day they were both identical but over but moved back the way I expect they should be.
I'm getting more nervous every time out.
Yamablog updated today and I hoped he would have something to say cause we all know this gets read but nothing but pictures of snow x and freestyle jumps.
Racing on Sunday, selling on Monday only works two weeks in a row if it doesn't fall apart on the trails on Tuesday.
Color me concerned. Yes I have bought it up with my dealer, no response yet.
As of now, mine are at 3 9/16" and 3 7/16". The shocks have about 15/16" and 13/16" respectively before they will impact the back of the top a arms. That is the skinning part of the shock tube, at rest. If it was compressed, it would be much less to the fat top collar of the float.
NyTrOMaNIaC
TY 4 Stroke Master
bagadonitz said:
Yeah, that's crazy that you're seeing such fluctuations in those measurements ! Makes you wonder how long before something eventually just snaps from all that back and forth movement, because any type of metal can only withstand this for a little while. It really is too bad that a lot of us are nervous about our new sleds not holding up on the trail, but the fact that nothing is being done to fix it is beyond me. My dealer is a very agressive rider as well, and I'll be sure to show him what's going on.
Man sure glad i traded in my 07 Apex rtx! I do not like this AT ALL!! Lets measure are front ends every time we ride!!For 10,000Gs WHAT A JOKE!!
Skydog
Skydog
Hey guys, try lifting the front end up and rock your spindles back an forth. The bushings in the upper a-arm wear out pretty qickly. That might be the reason you are getting diffrent measurements.
Old Thumper
Pro
I'm curious - The A arms and the sub-frame attacment on the Phazer look identical to the Nytro. Have Phazer owners had issues with front end damage?
No no problems with phazer bending subframes or if there is it is very rare.Phazer the mounts are same but they are attached to one piece of square tubing not a tubular framework like Nytro has.Your differing measurement could be accounted for from different hieghts.The angle your measuring changes as the a-arm goes through the stroke.Push down or lift up sled and measurement will change.
Even though the FX Nytro's and Phazer's front suspension LOOK simular... The parts are different, and they mount different, and they weight different, and they.....
You get the picture!
You get the picture!
Phazer has the same problem with the bushings in the upper a-arms. Or even worse.
Unluckydiablo
Expert
Skydog said:Man sure glad i traded in my 07 Apex rtx! I do not like this AT ALL!! Lets measure are front ends every time we ride!!For 10,000Gs WHAT A JOKE!!
Skydog
you bought a first year sled, geez, its not like this is unheard of. Man, so many people bitch when they jump on a first year sled and it has a problem.
Now, I can see the keyboard missles being fired at me as I type this, so let me go on to say that I agree with dave 100% that while this may happen, yamaha needs to step up to the plate and get this fixed. I can't believe that we havn't heard anything, and that there is no response yet. A simple "we are aware of the problem and are working very hard to come out with a fix, though we can not give a date as of yet" would be nice.....
When you buy a first year sled, you are a field tester, plain and simple. The benifit is that you get to ride it before anyone who wants to hang back for reliability, the problem is that any problems that come up, you just have to wait for the company to deal with them. It SHOULDN'T be like this, but it is, and it is with every manufacturer.
lucky_7
TY 4 Stroke Guru
Unluckydiablo said:Skydog said:Man sure glad i traded in my 07 Apex rtx! I do not like this AT ALL!! Lets measure are front ends every time we ride!!For 10,000Gs WHAT A JOKE!!
Skydog
you bought a first year sled, geez, its not like this is unheard of. Man, so many people bitch when they jump on a first year sled and it has a problem.
Now, I can see the keyboard missles being fired at me as I type this, so let me go on to say that I agree with dave 100% that while this may happen, yamaha needs to step up to the plate and get this fixed. I can't believe that we havn't heard anything, and that there is no response yet. A simple "we are aware of the problem and are working very hard to come out with a fix, though we can not give a date as of yet" would be nice.....
When you buy a first year sled, you are a field tester, plain and simple. The benifit is that you get to ride it before anyone who wants to hang back for reliability, the problem is that any problems that come up, you just have to wait for the company to deal with them. It SHOULDN'T be like this, but it is, and it is with every manufacturer.
I agree with you, but it still pisses me off. We would never put up with a car company doing this.....
Unluckydiablo
Expert
Agreed lucky 7, agreed. Has anyone but turbo jamie gotten satisfaction from their dealer?
Crewchief47
Lifetime Member
- Joined
- Jan 16, 2006
- Messages
- 2,830
- Location
- McGregor, ON Canada
- Country
- Canada
- Snowmobile
- 2008 Nytro MTX 45th
lucky_7 said:We would never put up with a car company doing this.....
Actually, I believe we do, that's why there are recalls and TSBs.
Yea i understand ,little things but this is BIG TIME!!! I have this bad feeling we will all be stuck paying out of pocket to fix this!
Skydog
Skydog
phazerman2000
Veteran
you bent your upper control arm! pull it back and ride the thing. did it to my phazer turning in the yard on a small rock sticking up. no roblems since i pulled it back and i jump it on my mx track!
