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Let's start this "discussion" again....

I'm with Yooper and Buddha on this one:

I used to support hand signals and I think LED's are a neat idea and all, BUT common sense dictates that it's dangerous to ride one-handed while you have on-coming sleds, and the truth of the matter is:

IF EVERYONE RODE SAFE AND ALERT, AND STOPPED THINKING TO THEMSELVES THAT THEY WERE THE ONLY ONES ON THE TRAIL, AND REALIZED THAT THE TRAILS ARE NOT FOR RACING AND HOT-DOGGING, WE WOULDN'T NEED HAND SIGNALS.

Even if you receive a "closed fist" there's always the next unknown sled, that comes around a corner on the inside afterwards. The only hand signal that you should throw-up then is the middle finger, that is if you can safely control your sled to avoid the idiot with one hand, and give him a communicae with the other.

IMO: Using hand signals for on-coming sleds is like saying:

"Hi! I might hit a tree, or another sled by doing this, but it's more important for me to further risk my life, or yours, just so I can warn you and your buddies that you are on a public trail and you should slow-down and be prepared for OTHER SNOWMOBILES!"

The closed fist is like saying:

"Last one! Go ahead and tear it up!" Even though you may not know there are other sleds behind. Similar to 'The most dangerous gun is one that isn't loaded'

Maybe by NOT showing hand signals, the on-coming sledders will be left more confused, and it will actually cause them to pay attention and watch for other sleds on their own. The only hand signals you should make are when there aren't any on-coming sleds to alert people behind you that you are slowing-down, or to alert them of an obstacle or a nasty bump or ditch etc..., or it's OK to go around. But riding a sled with one hand should be done at a minimum, especially with on-coming sleds and on narrow MI UP trails.

If it's a choice between being arrogant, or being injured/killed? I'll choose arrogant.
 

If I'm the last sled and my buddy in front of me just gave the one sled left signal and that idiot you refer to doesn't hot dog into me, but waits until I'm gone to hot dog, then I'm happy a signal was given. That idiot would have been going to fast anyway and if the signal slowed him / her down at all, it was worth it. By the way, I wear leather mittens because of frostbitten fingers when I was a kid. Can anyone recommend a good glove that holds heat in as well at mittens. Thanks.
 
Yes / get the Gerbing heated gloves / you do not need the rest of the suit to make them work/ they're comfy warm / they heat the back of your hand and the handle bar heaters do the front / also for extreme cold I got a new set of gauntlets that have a wire in the cuff so that they stay open when you pull your hand out / I can ride in -20 and when I get back at the end of the day I'm toasty warm with no chilling effect / later
 
Red2003 said:
If I'm the last sled and my buddy in front of me just gave the one sled left signal and that idiot you refer to doesn't hot dog into me, but waits until I'm gone to hot dog, then I'm happy a signal was given.
Click to expand...

That doesn't really solve anything. All that idiot has learned to do is substitute hand signals for safe riding. It's the collision or the close call that the 'idiot' has with the lead sled, in the next group, that he wasn't expecting to be in the next corner. If you have to rely on another sled to tell you that there are more sleds coming, then you really aren't practicing good defensive riding skills, common sense, or good judgement on public trails. The way you ride when you encounter groups who indicate 1 or more sleds left, is the way you should be riding at all times. You should ride defensively. If there's a corner, expect a sled to be in the middle of it, possibly on your side; If there's a hill, expect a sled to be on the other side.

My point is: You should never rely on on-coming hand signals, or get used to thinking that a closed-fist means "let-er rip!" If someone is unsure of the number of on-coming sleds, that's the way it should be, as people have a tendancy to err on the side of caution when they're uncertain. Nobody should be riding winding, twisty, or narrow trails like a race track, even if people are giving signals. With mittens you can't tell what the other person is communicating anyway, so what's the point? There's more to being a skilled rider than being able to take a sharp turn at high speeds. A skilled rider understands that a clear trail is a dangerous one, with or without signals.
 
I agree Buddah, they should be used, and this should be the official "courtesy". However, from what I saw, from say 5/10 yrs ago, I see more hand signals today then before.

But it SHOULD be courtesy from ALL riders.
 
4Fighter said:
Red2003 said:
If I'm the last sled and my buddy in front of me just gave the one sled left signal and that idiot you refer to doesn't hot dog into me, but waits until I'm gone to hot dog, then I'm happy a signal was given.
Click to expand...

That doesn't really solve anything. All that idiot has learned to do is substitute hand signals for safe riding. It's the collision or the close call that the 'idiot' has with the lead sled, in the next group, that he wasn't expecting to be in the next corner. If you have to rely on another sled to tell you that there are more sleds coming, then you really aren't practicing good defensive riding skills, common sense, or good judgement on public trails. The way you ride when you encounter groups who indicate 1 or more sleds left, is the way you should be riding at all times. You should ride defensively. If there's a corner, expect a sled to be in the middle of it, possibly on your side; If there's a hill, expect a sled to be on the other side.

My point is: You should never rely on on-coming hand signals, or get used to thinking that a closed-fist means "let-er rip!" If someone is unsure of the number of on-coming sleds, that's the way it should be, as people have a tendancy to err on the side of caution when they're uncertain. Nobody should be riding winding, twisty, or narrow trails like a race track, even if people are giving signals. With mittens you can't tell what the other person is communicating anyway, so what's the point? There's more to being a skilled rider than being able to take a sharp turn at high speeds. A skilled rider understands that a clear trail is a dangerous one, with or without signals.
Click to expand...

Very Well Said! ;)!
 
The point you are missing is that idiots don't err on the side of caution. That's why they are idiots. If the hand signals slow them down for a bit, that's better then nothing at all. If we follow your logic, we should no longer caution our kids not to do drugs because they might use them when we're not around. While we're at it, lets get those patrol officers off the road since we'll speed when we get around the next corner. Idiots will be idiots, and if they were going fast before they got the signal, they will be going fast again, but slowing them down for a while can't hurt.
 
Red2003 said:
The point you are missing is that idiots don't err on the side of caution. That's why they are idiots. If the hand signals slow them down for a bit, that's better then nothing at all. If we follow your logic, we should no longer caution our kids not to do drugs because they might use them when we're not around. While we're at it, lets get those patrol officers off the road since we'll speed when we get around the next corner. Idiots will be idiots, and if they were going fast before they got the signal, they will be going fast again, but slowing them down for a while can't hurt.
Click to expand...

Exactly...If you keep following some of the logic on this thread we might as well remove turn signals on cars. Granted some people don't use them all the time and some forget to turn them off. Can you always assume someone with no turn signal won't turn or someone with a signal on won't continue straight ?, no you can't. But in the BIG PICTURE they make driving safer.
 
NY_Warrior said:
Red2003 said:
The point you are missing is that idiots don't err on the side of caution. That's why they are idiots. If the hand signals slow them down for a bit, that's better then nothing at all. If we follow your logic, we should no longer caution our kids not to do drugs because they might use them when we're not around. While we're at it, lets get those patrol officers off the road since we'll speed when we get around the next corner. Idiots will be idiots, and if they were going fast before they got the signal, they will be going fast again, but slowing them down for a while can't hurt.
Click to expand...

Exactly...If you keep following some of the logic on this thread we might as well remove turn signals on cars. Granted some people don't use them all the time and some forget to turn them off. Can you always assume someone with no turn signal won't turn or someone with a signal on won't continue straight ?, no you can't. But in the BIG PICTURE they make driving safer.
Click to expand...

I must say also well said! ;)!
 
NY_Warrior said:
Exactly...If you keep following some of the logic on this thread we might as well remove turn signals on cars.
Click to expand...
I don't know, if you follow other logic in this thread we're headed toward turn signals on our sleds, right after we install the LED scoreboards.
LaLaLa
 
Turn signals on sleds is a great idea. We have head lights, tail lights and brake lights right?? More driver info can't be a bad thing in my opinion. I'd like to know why we don't have them, actually. One less thing we'd have to signal for. Now a horn just might be over the top...............
 
We can't even get mirrors as standard equipment on anything but the touring sleds. I'd like to see them before the turn signals. :wink:
 
Tork said:
Good thread Jim :D
But I have come to the realization that for a guy who is having a hard time controlling his sled, that I'd rather he keeps his hand on the bars.
If most people in the oncomming group do it, it is quite helpful.

Funny thing is that especially this year, many people think that their side of the trail is the middle. And that is after they know you are there :shock:
Click to expand...

ENOUGH SAID. :o|
 
I love it when I come up to a guy that has his fist in the air indicating he's the last sled only to see 20 sleds on his #*$&@. How can some people not see someone on their #*$&@ even when they have mirrors :o|
 
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