Major Oil Leak-Need advice

[jaydaniels]

Well, good friend of mine just bought a 2008 Nytro. Everything seemed fine with it until he went for a drive across the field. Clutch started slipping and then sledstarted smoking like crazy. After some investigation, it was found that the oil filter was cross-threaded and the old seal from the previous filter was still on. Leaked everywhere and then sucked oil into the intake. Now, first off, we are concerned this may have damaged the motor. Secondly, a dealer installed the oil filter. The guy we bought the sled from is going to contact them. Should they or will they come good for anything. If the motor is damaged, would they be responsible? Thoughts. Also, just to add to the problems, we are from Canada and bought the sled in the US. What to do.

 

[Super Sled]

Your dealer's responsibility will depend mostly on their integrity and reputation -- and their policies standing behind their service. If push comes to shove, the laws of the State where the service work was performed will also come into play. Mind you, the seller is going to have to go to bat for you working with his dealer to get the sled fixed up. If you want to have the dealer fix it up, then I'd just trailer it back to the dealer and beg that seller to demand the dealer make this right.

But big question is how much oil leaked out and how long the sled ran for. The smoke could easily just have been oil hitting the hot engine after it was spewing oil out all over itself. And oil splashed/sprayed at the clutches will cause immediate belt slippage and squeeling. That may actually have saved your buddy by providing an early warning to shut the sled down. If the sled still had sufficient oil in it, it's most likely just fine. They can run fine on surprisingly little oil in there, it just get recycled through the motor faster.

Maybe check the dip stick and see if there is any oil left in there -- that'll be indicative of how bad the engine was harmed. If the oil is totally empty, chances are higher for engine damage. If oil is still in there, even if low, then chances are everything is fine.

If you are going to bring it back to the US and to the dealer, I'd just leave everything as it exists how and just get it back to the dealer ASAP.

 

[WNY PAT]

Same thing happened to mine - minus the cross thread. I had the tech leave the old o ring stuck to the block and spun on a new filter. Had total oil loss and motor shut down. I didn't restart it and brought it directly back to the dealer. Dealer changed oil again and put on new filter. It seems to be fine now but I also got a 48 month warranty at less than cost for peace of mind. You are in a tough spot tho, no doubt about it.

 

[YammyRX1]

Will the engine shut down if there is no oil pressure?

 

[WNY PAT]

There was a really good thread on oil issues is the Nytro awhile back. The long and short of it is that the motor needs oil AND pressure to lubricate the internals properly. Low pressure OR lack of oil can (and has) caused catastrophic failures in these motors. If I remember right, if it is gonna grenade, it'll probably do it within a few hundred miles. The guy that started that thread had restarted the sled after it shut itself down and tried to make it home I think. His motor was shot. I never restarted and so far mine has been okay. Not a fun spot to be in.

 

[WNY PAT]

Oh and it'll shut down from low pressure - there's a switch I think. The problem is if you are at very high RPMs it might be too late. Anyway - I'm sure someone who is more tech savvy will chime in.

 

[jaydaniels]

Thanks for the advice. It would be nice if the dealer would give some warranty incase something does happen to the motor.

 

[Mountaintech]

We've been down this road last season. Basically in a nutshell it goes as follows. If there is a leak in the pressurized section of the oil system, system oil pressure will drop. This can come from stacking oil filter seals, hole in oil filter etc. There will/may be enough oil pressure to keep the engine running because the oil pressure switch is set very low. What ends up failing is a rod bearing because without ADEQUATE oil pressure it gets damaged very quickly. Engine might live for a short while but eventually develops a knock, followed by a hole in the block. Hope this helps in explaining things. The OEM "engine protector" can also rub a hole in the oil filter (if you use the longer one) with its aluminum stiffener and cause the same failure.

 

[Mountaintech]

Read this.

http://www.ty4stroke.com/viewtopic.php? ... highlight=

 

[Super Sled]

It's not all gloom and doom. Properly install a new oil filter, fill her up with new oil and check things out from there, that's what I'd do.

 

[jaydaniels]

I'd like to try the oil pressure check in the other post. Is it true that a drop in oil pressure would indicate damaged rod bearings? Seems like an easy check. Just need to find a gauge

 

[Mountaintech]

Yes, it is true. Most people don't realize how sensitive the rod bearings are to a drop in required oil pressure. They are loaded totally different than a crank bearing. That is apparent when they ask why the main crank bearings don't fail first. A rod bearing "lives" a totally different life than a crank bearing. A crank bearing supports a balanced rotating assembly in a fixed rotational plane, whereas a rod bearing supports a weight (rod and piston) that is being pounded down (by combustion), while rotating through an orbital rotation. It has a really tough job, and any loss in required oil pressure will result in metal to metal contact of bearing surface and rod journal. It's just plain physics and the damage occurs very quickly at 6000+ RPM.

 

[WNY PAT]

I think if you do the oil pressure check and something seems amiss you can avoid some additional costly repairs to the top half of the motor. If you run it and thing let go, you are looking at top and bottom. That's my .02 cents anyway. Mr. Roest probably has more authoritative advice than that tho.

 

[jaydaniels]

Yes, it is true. Most people don't realize how sensitive the rod bearings are to a drop in required oil pressure. They are loaded totally different than a crank bearing. That is apparent when they ask why the main crank bearings don't fail first. A rod bearing "lives" a totally different life than a crank bearing. A crank bearing supports a balanced rotating assembly in a fixed rotational plane, whereas a rod bearing supports a weight (rod and piston) that is being pounded down (by combustion), while rotating through an orbital rotation. It has a really tough job, and any loss in required oil pressure will result in metal to metal contact of bearing surface and rod journal. It's just plain physics and the damage occurs very quickly at 6000+ RPM.

It makes sense to me that a drop in oil pressure could cause damage but in another post someone was showing that a low oil pressure reading was an indication or confirmation that damage actually occured. I guess what I'm asking is a low pressure reading actually going to confirm that damage has already happened? Maybe I missunderstood the other post not sure.

 

[Mountaintech]

I answered yes to your question. Bill (MTN VIPER) posted that useful info. Go ahead and perform the test. Let us know what the results are.