jaydaniels
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Will do, thanks. Just need to find an oil pressure gauge. Thanks for the help.
jaydaniels
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One more question. In the 'sticky' on checking oil pressure it mentions to heat the oil with a gun and check temp with a probe. Can you not run the engine to allow the oil to get warm or do you need to follow this procedure?
TLiddicoat
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This is just a thought and take it for what its worth but if I am correct and if the rod bearings are in fact partially compromised, there will be babbit material in the oil. With this said, instead of worrying and potentially just dropping a ton of money to rebuild your bottom end, I think it would be a good investment and give you piece of mind to take an oil sample and have it sent in for an analysis. Who wants to rebuild something when it may infact be fine.
Again, this is just a thought and will in fact give you a good reading on your oil and what shape your bearings are in. Since the oil was just replaced before this happened, your babbit material should show up at a low level.
Again, this is just a thought and will in fact give you a good reading on your oil and what shape your bearings are in. Since the oil was just replaced before this happened, your babbit material should show up at a low level.
Mountaintech
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jaydaniels said:
One of the objectives of troubleshooting is to minimize further damage. Running the engine for the period of time that it takes to heat the oil up to a "testable" temperature defeats that objective. Make sense?
jaydaniels
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Roest said:
Yes, makes sense. That's kind of what I was thinking. Where would one place a heat gun to heat up? On the oil resevoir? Also, can I assume you need to run the engine to test the pressure?
Mountaintech
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Read MTN VIPERs post again. Measure oil pressure at idle and 5000-6000 rpm while engine/coolant/oil is cold. Repeat test again with warm oil ie. heat oil in oil tank. To answer your last question, yes engine must be running to achieve those rpms.....unless you possess magical powers that the rest of us don't have.
jaydaniels
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No magical powers that I know of. Reason for the statement was that one post mentions to heat the oil with a heat gun helping prevent further damage however you need to run at 6000 rpm to test pressure. I guess it's okay since it's just for a very short period of time.
Mountaintech
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Heating the oil doesn't help to prevent damage. The test will reveal whether clearances have changed (internal damage) because the oil is thinner. If the engine truly has damage, every time you start it you are risking further damage.
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Yes, Roest is correct. Damaged rod bearings will have excessive crank to bearing clearance and not hold oil pressure properly.
The reason for heating up the oil is to reproduce the same temps that it would be at while riding.
Another way to warm up the oil, is to run the sled on a safety track stand.
You'll need to place a lawn sprinkler under the front heat exchanger so that it sprays cold water on the heat exchanger and track. This allows the engine to run longer without overheating, also it warms the oil up faster by placing the motor under load (slowly spinning the track).
The safest way to do this, is to secure the sled down to an open place trailer connected to the truck.
Clamp the skies down tight to the trailer and use a couple of tie down straps on the front suspension as well.
For a track stand, use one that is ISR approved, they have side and back shields and most importantly a secure method of elevating the back end of the sled. Most guys that race sleds will have one. Lastly don't forget to tie down the lawn sprinkler, a track will do a number on one real quick!
During the test, I like to let the engine idle with the sprinkler on. While its idling check the oil tank temp, after awhile it will reach a point where it won't go any higher (usually around 120*F). At this point you'll need to start spinning the track to LIGHTLY load the motor. Don't go crazy with the track speed, your just trying to warm the oil up to about 140-150*F!
If there is damage you don't want to run it to hard on the track stand and risk further damage. (ie pitch a rod through the block)
Thats where the heat gun comes in, at this point you'll use the heat gun to get the oil up to full operating temp around 180*F.
Once the oil is hot, go ahead and let it idle and check your reading. It should be at least 7 psi hot idling, if I remember correctly. The 1-2 psi in the pics was way to low (it would actaully drop to 0 below 1000 rpm), so it was easy to justify tearing the engine down.
Also through out the warm up process I'm checking the oil pressure at idle and listening for engine noise. If at any point the pressure drops rapidly or the engine starts knocking, shut her down right away.
Remember safety first, sled sucurely tied down, good track stand and of course NOBODY standing in front of the sled while it's running.
The reason for heating up the oil is to reproduce the same temps that it would be at while riding.
Another way to warm up the oil, is to run the sled on a safety track stand.
You'll need to place a lawn sprinkler under the front heat exchanger so that it sprays cold water on the heat exchanger and track. This allows the engine to run longer without overheating, also it warms the oil up faster by placing the motor under load (slowly spinning the track).
The safest way to do this, is to secure the sled down to an open place trailer connected to the truck.
Clamp the skies down tight to the trailer and use a couple of tie down straps on the front suspension as well.
For a track stand, use one that is ISR approved, they have side and back shields and most importantly a secure method of elevating the back end of the sled. Most guys that race sleds will have one. Lastly don't forget to tie down the lawn sprinkler, a track will do a number on one real quick!
During the test, I like to let the engine idle with the sprinkler on. While its idling check the oil tank temp, after awhile it will reach a point where it won't go any higher (usually around 120*F). At this point you'll need to start spinning the track to LIGHTLY load the motor. Don't go crazy with the track speed, your just trying to warm the oil up to about 140-150*F!
If there is damage you don't want to run it to hard on the track stand and risk further damage. (ie pitch a rod through the block)
Thats where the heat gun comes in, at this point you'll use the heat gun to get the oil up to full operating temp around 180*F.
Once the oil is hot, go ahead and let it idle and check your reading. It should be at least 7 psi hot idling, if I remember correctly. The 1-2 psi in the pics was way to low (it would actaully drop to 0 below 1000 rpm), so it was easy to justify tearing the engine down.
Also through out the warm up process I'm checking the oil pressure at idle and listening for engine noise. If at any point the pressure drops rapidly or the engine starts knocking, shut her down right away.
Remember safety first, sled sucurely tied down, good track stand and of course NOBODY standing in front of the sled while it's running.
Mountaintech
TY 4 Stroke God
So, what did you find out??
canoehead
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Great question Pete!Roest said:
jaydaniels
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Excellent question. Still haven't checked it. Can't seem to find an oil pressure tester anywhere. Anyone know where to find one for a decent price?
Mountaintech
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http://www.ebay.com/itm/ATD-Automatic-T ... 3320wt_877
This will work. Then you will need another fitting or 2 to tie it in to where the oil pressure switch is on the back of the block.
This will work. Then you will need another fitting or 2 to tie it in to where the oil pressure switch is on the back of the block.
jaydaniels
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Awesome thanks.
jaydaniels
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Well, don't have good news to post. I got an oil pressure gauge for my buddy. Never got around to checking it and he decided to drive the sled anyhow as it seemed to work okay. Well, about 200 miles after the oil leak blew a rod through the case. We didn't take anything apart yet but you can look down be the filter and see the crank. For anyone who has had a major oil leak such as this, pretty good chance the motor is going to blow. Thanks to everyone for the great advice in the post as it was spot on. Just too bad we didn't check this one.
