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My Phazer MTX Turbo Project Log

Interesting.

I contacted MCX to see if they still sell the head shims. However, I think I would rather go with 10.5 JE pistons if they arent insanely priced. I dont know. I've spent sooo much time reading everything I can find in every nook and cranny of the internet, and it seems like the head shims make the phazer really lazy on the low end.

I wish I knew what they lowered the CR down to. It seems like the boondocker one must have lowered it to 11.8 as thats what the reference for octane suggestions in their Control Box instructions for the phazer (the only existing documentation on this kit)

boondockersOctane.PNG


Edit: I was playing with the numbers and 11.8:1 would be a 12.5 CR with a .029 head gasket. 12.5 CR with a .098 head gasket would be 9.0CR. Is that what they are referencing? Makes sense to be to show stock vs shimmed recommendations.

Edit #2: well that doesnt make sense either. I cant find specs on the stock head gasket thickness, but the Cometic replacement version is .018

Edit: #3: ARG. I just got off the phone with Boondockers. They do not know why 11.8 is listed either.
 
Last edited:

Humor me for a minute:

The motor was obviously cold and hasn't been turned over in months. I was testing it with a crappy battery and it was cranking pretty slow (more than normal phazer slow), and was getting worse as the testing went on. When I dribbled some oil in I could barely see/tell how much was coming out. Its quite possible that I wasn't as accurate as I thought I was being.

I tested it again with the engine on my work bench by jumping the starter directly and got about 144 and 145 steady. Any oil that I dribbled into it on Sunday should have leaked down by now. Its been 48 hours. This time I took a 1/4" fuel line and dipped it into the oil can, putting an inch of oil in it to use for my wet compression test, which I would say is roughly half of what I used last night. I got 149 and 150. This is much lower than the 179 min, and significantly lower than the 209 recommended.

Circling back to the cold thing and ignoring how the plugs looked - Don't these sleds have some decompression deal on the cams when they are cold? Anyone know anything about the decompression, how it works, etc?
 
DigitalFusion said:
Humor me for a minute:

The motor was obviously cold and hasn't been turned over in months. I was testing it with a crappy battery and it was cranking pretty slow (more than normal phazer slow), and was getting worse as the testing went on. When I dribbled some oil in I could barely see/tell how much was coming out. Its quite possible that I wasn't as accurate as I thought I was being.

I tested it again with the engine on my work bench by jumping the starter directly and got about 144 and 145 steady. Any oil that I dribbled into it on Sunday should have leaked down by now. Its been 48 hours. This time I took a 1/4" fuel line and dipped it into the oil can, putting an inch of oil in it to use for my wet compression test, which I would say is roughly half of what I used last night. I got 149 and 150. This is much lower than the 179 min, and significantly lower than the 209 recommended.

Circling back to the cold thing and ignoring how the plugs looked - Don't these sleds have some decompression deal on the cams when they are cold? Anyone know anything about the decompression, how it works, etc?
Click to expand...
They do have a decomp. Remind me I will dig it out of attic and take a pic. It works with centrifugal force and holds one valve open slightly at cranking speed then disengages once motor is running and centrifugal force takes over. It definitly will effect a compression test which is why a leakdown test is better. You position engine so the decomp is just before or after engaging the valve.
 
Welp, I pulled the valve cover to check, but I couldnt tell, but I realized I had slow-mo vid on my phone:

 
The problem with having the oddball sled with the one off turbo kit. No one knows anything about them anymore. Ours is shimmed. Guy I got it from said he ran pump premium at 8 pounds here in mn with it. 99% of the time I fuel at home so have always dumped a couple gallons of c12 in each tank. When we go on a road trip I bring fuel and will toss a couple gallons in the tank. Pain in the #*$&@ but fuel is cheaper than motor parts. With the shim in it is still pretty snappy. It’s clutched pretty light on the heel so it engages higher than it should but it eliminated any lazy issues. I haven't pulled them out of the trailer this year due to schedules and our not so great snow conditions but I think I have it engaging around 5k. Memory isn't as good as it once was.
 
Pretty sure my boondocker apex had the exact same octane table in the instruction book. Looks like they maybe printed the same one for both sleds.
 
mysledblows said:
The problem with having the oddball sled with the one off turbo kit. No one knows anything about them anymore. Ours is shimmed. Guy I got it from said he ran pump premium at 8 pounds here in mn with it. 99% of the time I fuel at home so have always dumped a couple gallons of c12 in each tank. When we go on a road trip I bring fuel and will toss a couple gallons in the tank. Pain in the #*$&@ but fuel is cheaper than motor parts. With the shim in it is still pretty snappy. It’s clutched pretty light on the heel so it engages higher than it should but it eliminated any lazy issues. I haven't pulled them out of the trailer this year due to schedules and our not so great snow conditions but I think I have it engaging around 5k. Memory isn't as good as it once was.
Click to expand...

Ain't that the truth. There is still some good info out there on the phazer, phazer turbo not as much, phazer turbo with boon dockers? forget about it!

Good to know that shims aren't too bad. MCX got back to me. Said the shims are $250. But thats half the cost of what JE used to charge for a set of the low-comp pistons for these things. If JE will get back to me (I emailed and called, but missed the guy I needed to talk to so I left a message) I might try and go that route.

The starter on the 08 motor is garbage (glad I found that out before I sold it to someone) so I couldnt get a decent compression test. I swapped the starter from the 2010 and its worse than the other one! 105 and 120 cold! I dont get it. Really dont think cold compression testing is accurate at all. That one wasnt boosted and only had 2200 miles on it with a intake, exhaust, 3* timing advance, and a PCV with Autotune.
 
cannondale27 said:
They do have a decomp. Remind me I will dig it out of attic and take a pic. It works with centrifugal force and holds one valve open slightly at cranking speed then disengages once motor is running and centrifugal force takes over. It definitly will effect a compression test which is why a leakdown test is better. You position engine so the decomp is just before or after engaging the valve.
Click to expand...

Im trying to see if anyone I know has one. I've never done a leak down test before. A few quick google searches and I think if no one I know has one, I'll build my own.
 
I'm being dumb again aren't I? Hoping that there is still life in this engine as it is because that 08 motor isnt going to get me by until the off season. The same kinda dumb I was suffering from when I took the PO at his word and didn't think twice about compression testing a boosted sled.

Look at these things. They're fubar'ed.

plugs.png


Im not going to make the Big Horns trip, thats for sure. At this rate Im thinking I wont even make the March Togwotee trip unless I rent a sled. I'm getting on the horn with JE first thing in the morning. They claim they have a 2 week turn around on custom pistons, and they have made 10.5's for the phazer before on Outlaws 180hp phazer, so this shouldn't be too difficult
 
Well, Im this far in, I might as well accept my fate and do a custom piston rebuild.

I am going to stick with the stock rods for now as they have shown to hold up well. I ordered a Cometic head gasket, new rod bolts, and the needed gaskets which should all be here next week. Im trying to find ARP headstuds (why is it so hard to find parts for this damn sled?), and figure out how to fill out the order form for JE custom pistons.
 
DigitalFusion said:
Well, Im this far in, I might as well accept my fate and do a custom piston rebuild.

I am going to stick with the stock rods for now as they have shown to hold up well. I ordered a Cometic head gasket, new rod bolts, and the needed gaskets which should all be here next week. Im trying to find ARP headstuds (why is it so hard to find parts for this damn sled?), and figure out how to fill out the order form for JE custom pistons.
Click to expand...
Did you check CP pistons? I had nothing but bad luck with JE pistons in quads. CP never had a failure and they last forever.
 
The furthest I got was that they only make rods for the Phazer and they require 5 weeks for custom pistons. I didnt even check on pricing
 
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