Golf'nSledder
VIP Member
I need some help guys. I will try to explain in as much detail as possible: Couple of weeks ago got the sled out of summer storage in our enclosed trailer. Sled is 2006 Apex ER approx 6500 miles. Started fine for one trip around yard and into garage to get her ready. I wanted to tear into her and check the exhaust donuts. I had changed them about 3000 mile ago, so I figured it was time to take a look. When I finished, I put her back together and tried to start her up. Would turn over, no fire and got code 12. Managed to get it to fire once, thought all was OK. Went out today to start, got code 12 agaain. Checked to see what code 12 was and discovered it was crank position sensor. I went thru all connections again to make sure they were tight, and all appeared to be OK. Looked in service manual to see what to do and best I can tell, I need to replace the stator. Here is the question, this part is over $300 after shipping, which I don't mind paying if it will fix the problem. The mannual says to check the sensor as well as the wiring harness, but I am not really sure how to do this. I disconnected the sensor and put my voltmeter on both sides of the connector and got nothing. Now, I am no electrician, so I am not sure if I am doing this right or not. If not, how do I check it? How would I check the wiring harness? A visual inspection of all wiring and connections looks good. Just trying to not waste money on something I don't need. Thanks for any help!
Golf'nSledder
VIP Member
ttt
black knight
Expert
i wonder about your grounding blocks. i think there's 3 or 4 on these machines that have caused intermitent problems. there's 2 in the harness along the frame behind the primary clutch. 1 behind the coolant reservior. not sure if there is any more.
Might be a good spot to start.
Someone with a little more electrical experiance will ring in. theres a post that was up here a couple of days ago on the above mentioned grounding blocks.
keep us informed on what you find as these are the tuff ones to diagnose and we all can learn from each others problems.
cheers
Might be a good spot to start.
Someone with a little more electrical experiance will ring in. theres a post that was up here a couple of days ago on the above mentioned grounding blocks.
keep us informed on what you find as these are the tuff ones to diagnose and we all can learn from each others problems.
cheers
dhkr123
Expert
I've recently had a really weird electrical problem with an 03, and one thing that I've learned from it is that throwing a code *could* mean that what it says is accurate, or, it could mean that the ECU is just going nuts, which could be caused by bad ground, or if your problem is like mine, because your primary clutch weights have become magnetized and threw an oscillating EM field that messed with the ECU. Now the thing here is that the ignition being messed up definitely lines up with the code being thrown (mine threw a "grip warmer switch disconnected"... but mine is an 03... yours may throw a different random code when it is messed up), so hopefully it is at least accurate.
BUT, it could also just be random.
Dumping money into it is VERY premature. Proper diagnostics procedures must be followed BEFORE spending any money. In particular, TESTING the stator. There are FIVE WIRES coming out of the stator running into TWO PLUGS in the nose of the sled. The plug with TWO wires is the one you're looking for. Check the RESISTANCE between the two wires. It should be 189 ~ 231 Ohms. Also check it for CONTINUITY TO GROUND -- should be ZERO, as in NOT CONNECTED.
Also inspect all the wires CAREFULLY. In particular, the wires between the plug and the ECU, it could also be shorted on the frame between the stator and the plug. On some older models, these wires were frequently chafed against some sharp metal in the nose. I don't know what, if anything, they did to prevent that on newer models.
If your coil resistance is low or you have continuity to ground, then DO NOT just go out and buy a new stator! It is VERY possible that you may be able to REPAIR the existing stator. It is ***EXTREMELY*** unlikely that the coil itself is damaged in any way, leaving only the WIRES (there was a bulletin that applied to... not sure what range of years... about the pickup coil wire getting rubbed by the starter gear under the cover). Wires can easily be repaired or replaced for a couple of bucks. If the coil itself is damaged, then you've got worse problems to worry about than buying a new stator, specifically, the source of the debris that got in there and caused the damage (because it would virtually HAVE to be mechanical..), and what other damage that debris may have caused. It really is impossible for the coil itself to be randomly defective. I can pretty much guarantee that you can either replace the wire (99.9999000%), or the problem is so severe that replacing the stator won't be useful (0.0000999%). I rate the chances of you needing to dump money and just buy a new stator as 0.0000001%.
If it becomes necessary to remove the stator (to repair wires under the cover), the following may help:
The stator actually comes off this engine surprisingly easily. Remove the oil tank to expose the stator end of the engine (make sure that you drain the oil from the oil tank and engine before proceeding... you can save the oil to put back in later.). There are a bunch of ALLEN HEAD BOLTS holding the cover on the engine. Remove those bolts and then pry the cover loose using a screwdriver on the pry point towards the upper right. It WILL RESIST being pulled off, because the stator is bolted into this cover, and is being held in by very strong magnets. Pull hard and it will just pop out.
BUT, it could also just be random.
Dumping money into it is VERY premature. Proper diagnostics procedures must be followed BEFORE spending any money. In particular, TESTING the stator. There are FIVE WIRES coming out of the stator running into TWO PLUGS in the nose of the sled. The plug with TWO wires is the one you're looking for. Check the RESISTANCE between the two wires. It should be 189 ~ 231 Ohms. Also check it for CONTINUITY TO GROUND -- should be ZERO, as in NOT CONNECTED.
Also inspect all the wires CAREFULLY. In particular, the wires between the plug and the ECU, it could also be shorted on the frame between the stator and the plug. On some older models, these wires were frequently chafed against some sharp metal in the nose. I don't know what, if anything, they did to prevent that on newer models.
If your coil resistance is low or you have continuity to ground, then DO NOT just go out and buy a new stator! It is VERY possible that you may be able to REPAIR the existing stator. It is ***EXTREMELY*** unlikely that the coil itself is damaged in any way, leaving only the WIRES (there was a bulletin that applied to... not sure what range of years... about the pickup coil wire getting rubbed by the starter gear under the cover). Wires can easily be repaired or replaced for a couple of bucks. If the coil itself is damaged, then you've got worse problems to worry about than buying a new stator, specifically, the source of the debris that got in there and caused the damage (because it would virtually HAVE to be mechanical..), and what other damage that debris may have caused. It really is impossible for the coil itself to be randomly defective. I can pretty much guarantee that you can either replace the wire (99.9999000%), or the problem is so severe that replacing the stator won't be useful (0.0000999%). I rate the chances of you needing to dump money and just buy a new stator as 0.0000001%.
If it becomes necessary to remove the stator (to repair wires under the cover), the following may help:
The stator actually comes off this engine surprisingly easily. Remove the oil tank to expose the stator end of the engine (make sure that you drain the oil from the oil tank and engine before proceeding... you can save the oil to put back in later.). There are a bunch of ALLEN HEAD BOLTS holding the cover on the engine. Remove those bolts and then pry the cover loose using a screwdriver on the pry point towards the upper right. It WILL RESIST being pulled off, because the stator is bolted into this cover, and is being held in by very strong magnets. Pull hard and it will just pop out.
Golf'nSledder
VIP Member
This is all really great information. When I get home tonight, I will get started in trying to get this figured out. Thanks Again for all feedback. I will update as I go.
Golf'nSledder
VIP Member
Another couple of questions:
First, my garage is not heated, will this make a difference for testing these electrical conections.
Second, my voltmeter has settings for 200, 2K, 20K, 200K, and 2000K. Which setting should it be on when reading these ohlms?
First, my garage is not heated, will this make a difference for testing these electrical conections.
Second, my voltmeter has settings for 200, 2K, 20K, 200K, and 2000K. Which setting should it be on when reading these ohlms?
sledneck22
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
I am going through this exact same BS as you right now with this code. The CPS should read between 300 ~ 600 ohms if working properly. I went through all this diagnostics and found my Sensor was reading 38000 ohms meaning the circuit is open hence a shot sensor. So you would want to start your settings at 2k ohms then if you don't get a reading go up to 20k or 20000k and see what you are getting. If you are getting a reading that seam abnormally high it probably means your circuit is open and the sensor is actually shot. I have one ordered as we speak and waiting for it to show up to reinstall and make sure that solves my problem. I did a bunch of research and found that this sensor has been know to go out. And many of them had similar experiences as you where it would run once and then it wouldn't start after that. Mine sat all summer and I went to start it and the code was instantly thrown. Hopefully this is the answer.
Regards,
Kyle
Regards,
Kyle
dhkr123
Expert
He might be a little closer on the resistance numbers. Stupid the way the service manuals show updates by building on older manuals rather than replacing.... from the 06 supplementary service manual 446~545 Ohm.
But again... the "crank angle sensor" is really just a pickup coil -- it isn't a fancy optical sensor with transistors and diodes or anything, it is just a coil of wire, it won't break without a CATASTROPHIC REASON. There is NO NEED to replace it. Just change the bad wire for a few cents.
If it isn't within the range of 446 to 545, there is no need to find out what exactly it is -- pull the wires apart until you find the one that is bad.
Problem with people these days is that the concept of REPAIR has been lost, instead now, the tendency is to REPLACE.
But again... the "crank angle sensor" is really just a pickup coil -- it isn't a fancy optical sensor with transistors and diodes or anything, it is just a coil of wire, it won't break without a CATASTROPHIC REASON. There is NO NEED to replace it. Just change the bad wire for a few cents.
If it isn't within the range of 446 to 545, there is no need to find out what exactly it is -- pull the wires apart until you find the one that is bad.
Problem with people these days is that the concept of REPAIR has been lost, instead now, the tendency is to REPLACE.
sledneck22
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
I understand that you should repair... But when I checked both wires up and down, checked all my grounds, and diode greased all connections and I still have the same problem I think it is more than just a "bad wire".
Golf'nSledder
VIP Member
OK - Just got home and went to test Engine Crank Sensor. Here is what I got: Testing at the wiring coupler in the nose of the sled the side of the coupler with the grey and black wires, goes to the ECS. Read 610 to 615 with ohlmeter set to 2000K Ohlms. Tested the other side of the coupler and got a reading of 5.1 to 5.6 with the meter set to 20K Ohlms. Any opinions?? My first thought is that I have an open circuit going to the ECS, but wanted to see what you guys thought. Thanks Again
dhkr123
Expert
Huh? You aren't making any sense.
1) Supposed to be set to 2k. Not 2000k, not 20k. 2k.
2) There are only two wires running from the plug to the pickup coil. You test the resistance between them. This stuff about the "other side" makes no sense. Did you do something dumb, like test the resistance of the ECU?
Note: I *suspect* that your 5.1@20k reading was from the pickup coil. That number's not too bad. At 2k, that would read 0.510, or 510 Ohms.
Did you check for continuity to ground? The resistance seems right, so could be that a wire somewhere is chafed against a piece of metal and grounding out.
In any case, check the wires again or confirm that the 5.x reading was from the pickup coil side.
When you test resistance to ground, it will be 0 or 1 (on one of the wires), 0 or 5.x on the other. HOPE that you have a short to ground, because then you've found the problem and can easily fix it. If not, time to wrap tinfoil around your ECU and try again. Don't laugh, I'm being serious.
1) Supposed to be set to 2k. Not 2000k, not 20k. 2k.
2) There are only two wires running from the plug to the pickup coil. You test the resistance between them. This stuff about the "other side" makes no sense. Did you do something dumb, like test the resistance of the ECU?
Note: I *suspect* that your 5.1@20k reading was from the pickup coil. That number's not too bad. At 2k, that would read 0.510, or 510 Ohms.
Did you check for continuity to ground? The resistance seems right, so could be that a wire somewhere is chafed against a piece of metal and grounding out.
In any case, check the wires again or confirm that the 5.x reading was from the pickup coil side.
When you test resistance to ground, it will be 0 or 1 (on one of the wires), 0 or 5.x on the other. HOPE that you have a short to ground, because then you've found the problem and can easily fix it. If not, time to wrap tinfoil around your ECU and try again. Don't laugh, I'm being serious.
Golf'nSledder
VIP Member
This is definitely not my area of expertise. The electrical system testing is all new to me. I had the meter set at 2000K, which I realize is too high, but I could not get a reading at one of the other settings. It never moved off of 1 @ 200K, 20K, or 2 K. This was on the pick up coil side. Not realizing it was a dumb thing to do, I did test the ecu side and that was the reading I was getting. 5.1 to 5.6 with meter set at 20 K. Looking for advice on how to properly test this out.
Golf'nSledder
VIP Member
ttt
dhkr123
Expert
Ok, resistance = 1 means that the wire is broken. 0 would mean shorted.
If you're lucky, its broken OUTSIDE of the engine, but it could be in the engine.
What you need to do at this point is untie the wire from the chassis and pull it back as much as possible. Inspect VISUALLY -- if you see somewhere on the wire that looks like it is really badly broken, cut, *solder* in a splice, and heat shrink tube (double layer, the kind with the glue/ooze on the inside).
If there isn't any sign of a broken wire, then you'll have to REMOVE the stator, and test both wires individually end to end, and replace whichever is broken.
If you're lucky, its broken OUTSIDE of the engine, but it could be in the engine.
What you need to do at this point is untie the wire from the chassis and pull it back as much as possible. Inspect VISUALLY -- if you see somewhere on the wire that looks like it is really badly broken, cut, *solder* in a splice, and heat shrink tube (double layer, the kind with the glue/ooze on the inside).
If there isn't any sign of a broken wire, then you'll have to REMOVE the stator, and test both wires individually end to end, and replace whichever is broken.
Golf'nSledder
VIP Member
Just wanted to update on new developments. I checked the sled over to the best of my ability. Was getting weird reading on voltage meter on crank position sensor. Pulled the wires out for a good visual inspection, could see nothing wrong. Took engine side panel apart to get to stator, wires still looked good. Tested wires end to end, had continuity, but not thru the sensor. Ordered new stator from Yamaha. Put it back together tonight and she started right up! Thanks to all on this site for their help! I am no mechanic, but with the knowledge on here, I have been able to change this, change exhaust gaskets, change a track and extend my tunnel and suspension. GREAT SITE!!!!!
