New 2017 Yamaha Sleds...

[Sasquatch]

New Apex Spy Photo!! I came across this on another site.

In addition to a longer and wider track, power steering, and performance dampeners, they added a roll bar, heated seat, drink warmer, WiFi, auto parallel parking, a Jake Brake, and Class IV Tow Rating ... and it only gained a mere half ton.





View attachment 114449

That sure gets around, its a few years old and is a Alpina Sherpa sled used in Europe for towing almost anything. I've see the humor attempted more then once over the years as its blue but it looks like a Viper more then an Apex. But that aside I wish my club had one.

 

[lockburner2000]

View attachment 114450 View attachment 114451 View attachment 114452



That sure gets around, its a few years old and is a Alpina Sherpa sled used in Europe for towing almost anything. I've see the humor attempted more then once over the years as its blue but it looks like a Viper more then an Apex. But that aside I wish my club had one.

IT would be cool to have!! Still smaller then some of the SXS you meet on the trail in the summer.

 

[journeyman]

Not to rehash old disagreements, because both sides have been explored in depth! But, the numbers don't show that. The Viper is making the same horse power as the Nytro despite its curved exhaust. Do bends effect HP, Yes; drastically, not by a long shot. If its with in 1-2 HP, route it where it must for good ergonomics and balance. I'll be willing to bet that the lack of HP difference is due to the viper's exhaust being less restrictive overall; muffler would be my target for inspection if I were to test...

Sales show you are in the minority. Not saying the Apex is not a great sled (we own 2), just that its not what the crowd expects or is looking for in a modern chassis. The good news is you will have lots of apexes to choose from for a long time since they go so long. For a large portion if not the majority of the community, we feel alienated by Yamaha. Viper sales prove this and filled a huge gap in Yamaha's lineup! Give me a Viper Ergos in a light weight chassis with an Apex motor and I'm sold! Or give me a 2015 viper engine that is YAMAHA turboed in a light weight viper ergo chassis and I'm also happy.

I still like the Apex engine and power delivery over a turbo Viper. I have driven a few of the turbo'd Vipers and they still feel flat down low and come on like a light switch. I prefer the linear power the Apex motor has. That's just my opinion.

 

[Sasquatch]

Not to rehash old disagreements, because both sides have been explored in depth! But, the numbers don't show that. The Viper is making the same horse power as the Nytro despite its curved exhaust. Do bends effect HP, Yes; drastically, not by a long shot. If its with in 1-2 HP, route it where it must for good ergonomics and balance. I'll be willing to bet that the lack of HP difference is due to the viper's exhaust being less restrictive overall; muffler would be my target for inspection if I were to test...

Sales show you are in the minority. Not saying the Apex is not a great sled (we own 2), just that its not what the crowd expects or is looking for in a modern chassis. The good news is you will have lots of apexes to choose from for a long time since they go so long. For a large portion if not the majority of the community, we feel alienated by Yamaha. Viper sales prove this and filled a huge gap in Yamaha's lineup! Give me a Viper Ergos in a light weight chassis with an Apex motor and I'm sold! Or give me a 2015 viper engine that is YAMAHA turboed in a light weight viper ergo chassis and I'm also happy.

Talking Apex engine spinning 13,000rpm, not Viper spinning 8,500 rpm 1 or 2 hp at 8,5000 could easily turn into much more at 13,000. Now lets get past that.

I guess it boils down to this. There are sit down high mile touring types that love the Apex for what it is. They want some wind protection cause touring can be -40 days that are no fun with a dash cover and knuckle protectors. Then there are I like to stand up and ride short distance types/warm day types. They want high flying stand up pound the moguls balls to the wall on the verge of control. Then there is the middle ground. They go either way. Maybe what Yamaha needs is a middle ground machine. Course how to get an agreement of what that is is beyond me as there are two or rather three distinct groups. Sit down high speed touring, stand up and ride like a banshee and steep and deep.

The Viper covers the last two quite well. Turbo for more power on and off trail. Problem is there is that group within the group that wants an apex like machine that somehow morphs into a Viper and back again at will. They are not happy with the Viper power and or speed and want the Apex engine in a viper chassis and expect Apex riders to like it too. Viper does not in anyway reflect what most diehard Apex riders want.

Apex riders want stability and strength to go with their Motor. Most do not see that in the Viper chassis! Sure they want to shed a few pds but not at a sacrifice! So Cat does not build a chassis to make the Apex motor shine, Yamaha needs to build it! I think many jumped to the Cat chassis thinking that this is the best they are going to get (think middle ground). Most Apex riders are not that desperate, so we wait. Some have even came back from the Viper missing the Apex.

As far as ice in the tunnel goes this is not an Apex problem for most Apex riders from what I have seen. It was for sure a Nytro problem but for the most part a non issue for the Apex. Muffler in the back makes the back of a sled heavier but putting it up front makes the front heavier. I'll go with balance cause I can't lift the back of my Sisters Ski-Doo (which is supposed to be the lightest sled out there) when its stuck. She is struggling with the new sit a mile in the sky riding position and finds she has to lean way more then she wants/needs too and leaves the trail now and again.

Apex riders are a minority of riders but so are mountain riders and snow-cross riders. Snow-cross and mountain got their sled of choice now leave the Apex riders get theirs.

 

[4strokeluvr111]

The seat height on the current Vector's is so low it borders on being an old fashioned lowrider. The handlebars are a couple inches too far forward as well.

Better ergo's please!

 

[4StrokeAddict]

Apex riders are a minority of riders but so are mountain riders and snow-cross riders. Snow-cross and mountain got their sled of choice now leave the Apex riders get theirs.

That's my point, but Yamaha has only delivered a "sit down" sled. They haven't made something light and nimble like a viper with a good attack position. I also don't agree that the Viper isn't a good sit-down sled. I ride seated most of the time. However, Viper gives me the ability to stand up when necessary (bad bumps, bad back...); just wish it did have an Apex engine. One reason the viper is successful is that it is a versatile sled with appeal to several different markets. You can make a light nimble sled perform in most categories fairly easily. Its a lot more difficult to get a heavy sled like the apex to do the same. If Yamaha delivers another Apex like machine, I think that will be about the end of the Yamaha snowmobile division because they continue to alienate the majority of the market.

 

[DGZRT]

If you haven't noticed you better you at the Polaris Rush.

I know when they first started up the Blade borrowed parts from Polaris like engine, handle bar and some controls but the new Rush seems to have not much in common with the Blade at all !!

Just Imagine a Nytro motor in the Blades Full perimeter boxed frame with the Comp. Link stabilizer system with some new body panels . Then add the SLA dual A-arm front suspension maybe sweep it forward more like the Polaris. Then add a M20 Air Wave rear suspension and you would have a very nice sled. The Blades where the lightest snowmobile of there time so hopefully we could get the 4 stroke under 500#

I think It could be perfect with some work!

 

[Sasquatch]

That's my point, but Yamaha has only delivered a "sit down" sled. They haven't made something light and nimble like a viper with a good attack position. I also don't agree that the Viper isn't a good sit-down sled. I ride seated most of the time. However, Viper gives me the ability to stand up when necessary (bad bumps, bad back...); just wish it did have an Apex engine. One reason the viper is successful is that it is a versatile sled with appeal to several different markets. You can make a light nimble sled perform in most categories fairly easily. Its a lot more difficult to get a heavy sled like the apex to do the same. If Yamaha delivers another Apex like machine, I think that will be about the end of the Yamaha snowmobile division because they continue to alienate the majority of the market.

I think you missed the point. You do not want an Apex you want a Viper with the Apex motor. Yamaha gave a sled that does all that you want but somehow they still did wrong by not Changing the Apex over as well.

If Yamaha does not produce an Apex like sled then its the Apex riders they will alienate. I'm beginning to think that Yamaha can not win no matter what they do as they gave what you say is the vast majority of riders the sled they wanted and screamed for but it sounds as if its not enough!

 

[beattiel]

I heard today yamaha and AC are continuing the partnership and we are going to see a new Ctec2 800. Could just be shop talk, but it was from some AC guys that have been right about this sort of thing in the past.

 

[Sasquatch]

I heard today yamaha and AC are continuing the partnership and we are going to see a new Ctec2 800. Could just be shop talk, but it was from some AC guys that have been right about this sort of thing in the past.

Cat will have a 800 2 stroke. It having Yamaha badging is doubtful! What would be the point?

 

[beattiel]

I never said it made sense to me, a lot of things in the snowmobile world don't make sense to me though. Perhaps the Ctec2 800 is being developed by/with Yamaha.

 

[journeyman]

Cat will have a 800 2 stroke. It having Yamaha badging is doubtful! What would be the point?

I doubt a Yamaha version too...but hey they could put Yamaha clutches on it!

 

[tomanytoyz]

My Apex chassis still feels and is solid after 10yrs -over 10,000mi and with my #*$&@ that rides it hard ,and always will ,feels like new or close anyway .Hope Yamaha builds another chassis for the Apex (if they keep the name) that is just as strong or stronger . Weight .I don't care about the weight ,only my 2-smoke buddies have something to say about it .

Yamaha building another 2-smoke , I doubt it . I'm surprised there is still snowcross racing with 2-smokes ! ??

 

[4StrokeAddict]

I think you missed the point. You do not want an Apex you want a Viper with the Apex motor. Yamaha gave a sled that does all that you want but somehow they still did wrong by not Changing the Apex over as well.

If Yamaha does not produce an Apex like sled then its the Apex riders they will alienate. I'm beginning to think that Yamaha can not win no matter what they do as they gave what you say is the vast majority of riders the sled they wanted and screamed for but it sounds as if its not enough!

I agree with that as well. They probably need 2 different chassis to accommodate everyone. I also understand that there are people who the Apex caters to. But again, market share dictates everything. In order to remain competitive and in the business, they must go where the market is. There are more people buying viper like machines than Apex like machines. Yamaha didn't give me a sled everyone screamed for, Arctic Cat did. I want to buy a Yamaha chassis, but they don't produce anything in house that meets my needs. This is why I settled on thee viper which was partially a medical decision to stay in the sport with a bad back and partially due to my not liking how the Apexes ride in the twisties and off trail.

I also think the viper has gotten a bad rep from "pure Yamaha guys". I was extremely hesitant to buy an Arctic Cat chassis. There are some things that I don't care for in the build, but I have yet to see a perfect sled from factory to include the Apex. There have been lots of improvements in quality after 2014 as well. At the end of the day, I'm very happy with the Viper. Only time will tell if it will hold up like a Yamaha. In the mean time, I have no problem recommending a Viper or an Apex depending on what one is looking for in a sled.

I'm curious Sasquatch, do you ride any rough trails? Never rode that far north and don't know what your grooming is like... I think I may try to get to Manitoba next year. I hear its beautiful country.

 

[Heritage]

I can't speak for Sasquatch...but I think my apex xtx handles bigger, rougher bumpers, better than my 08 F-1000 Cat did...if anything it's too stiff stock, I plan on putting a star kit in to soften it up...it tends to be a bit harsh in the stutters...the mono seemed to work better in stutters and smaller junk, but not so good in the rough...I can honestly say...nobody is leaving me in the dust on rougher trails with my xtx, it flys straight and true through the rough...where my 07 attak, you had to slow down on the rough stuff...as is it would buck and bang (bottom hard).

I have owned Cats, Ski-Doos, and Yamaha's over the last 10 years....All have their pluses and minus's... I prefer Yamaha, and while I am intrigued by the viper...I am very happy with my XTX, and will not be getting anything else anytime soon. This sled puts more smiles on my face than any sled I have ever owned....everything I hated about my 07 attak gt..was addressed on this 2011 xtx...this is a far better machine..people who say otherwise, or who talk smack about the apex...simply haven't ridden a 2011 or newer one..it's that different, and better (between new and old)