New 2017 Yamaha Sleds...

[TRUE BLUE SINCE 1980]

Imagine if they did that and only offered it in Cat clothes, that way Yamaha could still say they are a "4-Stroke Snowmobile MFG". .

Yamaha would be giving away a lot of traffic in their Showrooms.
Yamaha's New thing is "they are a MOTOR company ". Twelve years ago it was "all our snowmobiles are 4 strokes" Things Change..... it would not be that big of a deal to drop back and Punt now!, and take advantage of ALL of their Motor Technology.
I'm sure most of us would forgive them.... but it would be a tough decision for some of us at dealership!

 

[4strokeluvr111]

http://www.supertraxmag.com/m/news_article.asp?nid=3026


These kinda articals this time of year just don't show up for no reason. Maybe not this year but soon? Who knows, and it may never happen. But it only further reinforces MY OPINION that the yamacat is here to stay and the so called "pure" Japan Yamaha Snowmobile is done! #keepsmokingalive! LOL!

Yep, who really thought that Lovie Smith would get fired today......or Mike McCarthy after they lose on Sunday?

Anything can happen!

 

[Sasquatch]

http://www.supertraxmag.com/m/news_article.asp?nid=3026


These kinda articals this time of year just don't show up for no reason. Maybe not this year but soon? Who knows, and it may never happen. But it only further reinforces MY OPINION that the yamacat is here to stay and the so called "pure" Japan Yamaha Snowmobile is done! #keepsmokingalive! LOL!

Yamaha could indeed stop building sleds and concentrate on only selling Catamahas (to be a Yamacat it would need to be more Yamaha less cat) built for them by Cat. If this does happen though why buy a Yamaha? For the name? If Yamaha is only going to sell motors and not build chassis then as a sled company IMHO they are done!

 

[blueironranger]

Don't even think Yamaha makes a DI two stroke anymore, the last HPDI outboards just got phased out.

 

[yama_rider]

The future is looking bleak. The new 700 Grizzly engine is not even built by Yamaha anymore, only has their name on the cases. I believe it is built by Subaru.

 

[smokingcrater]

The future is looking bleak. The new 700 Grizzly engine is not even built by Yamaha anymore, only has their name on the cases. I believe it is built by Subaru.

I wouldn't put too much stock into that, Polaris didn't build the majority of their engines for many, many years (Subaru/FHI). Arctic cat has also outsourced a lot of their engine building throughout history. (Suzuki)

Yamaha 4 stroke snowmobile engines are quite similar (or nearly identical) to their sport bike line, so it really wouldn't make sense to give that up. A big heavy workhorse ATV doesn't need that type of engine, and subaru has a long history of building all kinds of workhorse engines.

(There is also a indirect financial link between subaru and Yamaha already, Toyota owns a minority share of both companies)

 

[yama_rider]

To me it's so simple.... they already have the goods in their parts bin. Use the R1 crossplane motor that came out in 2009 which is 180HP (just enough to bump the turbo Cat off the HP podium), give it that style of projection headlights, and ditch the rear exit exhaust. There would be very little R&D involved compared to designing a new sled from scratch.

 

[GeFeldz]

The problem with using newer r1 motors is that they rev higher than the Apex engine. The apex already has a down gearing between the crank and the primary and it would only have to get bigger. It's probably harder to get the fuel efficiency with higher revs as well. It would be better to increase the volume to something like 1300 or 1400 ccs and get about 200 hp with similar revs. The only problem with that is they'd either have to begin with the fjr 1300 motor which is bigger and heavier than the Apex motor or they'd have to design a new motor from the ground up which is expensive. It'd probably be cheaper to engineer a factory turbo but that opens up a big can of worms with warranty claims on blown motors that may or may not have had stock boost pressure when they went kaboom. The stock apex motor is fine as it is and it has good enough power for most and for those who want more there's aftermarket turbos. Give us the apex motors in a lighter chassis with more modern ergonomics and it would sell. Please?

 

[4StrokeAddict]

I'd love a true factory installed apex or viper turbo! Turbos rock! Another interesting option would be adding some sort of cylinder dropping technology and variable valve timing (not sure if they are adjusting timing on the fly yet). Now you could put a bigger engine in for the power and pass the emissions and fuel economy tests.

I can't get excited about a 2 stroke. They are all too lean on oil to make them compete with 4 strokes and pass emissions. This is why the 2s engines don't go more than 10,000 miles anymore. The old Yamaha 2 strokes lasted so long because they were oil hogs (14,000 miles on original rings without pressure loss and counting)! I use 3+ times more oil in that sled than the new Ski Doos.

 

[Sasquatch]

To me it's so simple.... they already have the goods in their parts bin. Use the R1 crossplane motor that came out in 2009 which is 180HP (just enough to bump the turbo Cat off the HP podium), give it that style of projection headlights, and ditch the rear exit exhaust. There would be very little R&D involved compared to designing a new sled from scratch.

To get 180hp they spin the motor at 13,500 rpmish. Why do some people not get that motorcycle to sled is not a direct swap. Apples to Oranges! The RX/Apex engine in use now is a detuned bike engine capable of more hp at a higher rpm. They slow the clutch speed to 8,500 from 10,500. To do that with a 13,500 rpm engine would call for a 5000 rpm drop and a gear reduction drive larger then the clutch. Not going to happen with the current motor and with that in mind why would it happen with the crossplane which has no benefit over the current motor.

Secondly you want to dump the rear exhaust and turn it around 180 degrees like the Viper on a motor of similar displacement pumping say 30% more exhaust volume at 13,500 rpm? Good luck with that! Talk about a restriction! I would say if you can design the huge gear reduction and get that installed so your belt will live, your going to want the rear better breathing exhaust to maintain the hp.

 

[Sasquatch]

The problem with using newer r1 motors is that they rev higher than the Apex engine. The apex already has a down gearing between the crank and the primary and it would only have to get bigger. It's probably harder to get the fuel efficiency with higher revs as well. It would be better to increase the volume to something like 1300 or 1400 ccs and get about 200 hp with similar revs. The only problem with that is they'd either have to begin with the fjr 1300 motor which is bigger and heavier than the Apex motor or they'd have to design a new motor from the ground up which is expensive. It'd probably be cheaper to engineer a factory turbo but that opens up a big can of worms with warranty claims on blown motors that may or may not have had stock boost pressure when they went kaboom. The stock apex motor is fine as it is and it has good enough power for most and for those who want more there's aftermarket turbos. Give us the apex motors in a lighter chassis with more modern ergonomics and it would sell. Please?

Or just stroke the Apex engine and port the heads! Looks like that is worth 180hp per Hurricane performance.

As far as ergonomics I don't want to sit higher and or further ahead and damit I want a barn door size windshield as well. LOL!

 

[Grimm]

Anyone know what day Yamaha releases info on the 2017s? Usually it's mid to late February, but I think that due to the poor start of the season, they'll likely delay until sometime in March.

 

[yama_rider]

To get 180hp they spin the motor at 13,500 rpmish. Why do some people not get that motorcycle to sled is not a direct swap. Apples to Oranges! The RX/Apex engine in use now is a detuned bike engine capable of more hp at a higher rpm. They slow the clutch speed to 8,500 from 10,500. To do that with a 13,500 rpm engine would call for a 5000 rpm drop and a gear reduction drive larger then the clutch. Not going to happen with the current motor and with that in mind why would it happen with the crossplane which has no benefit over the current motor.

Secondly you want to dump the rear exhaust and turn it around 180 degrees like the Viper on a motor of similar displacement pumping say 30% more exhaust volume at 13,500 rpm? Good luck with that! Talk about a restriction! I would say if you can design the huge gear reduction and get that installed so your belt will live, your going to want the rear better breathing exhaust to maintain the hp.

13,500 RPM? I know it spins higher but are you sure it spins that high??? And obviously I realize its not a direct swap but I'm sure 75% of the components could be the same. My point is that Yamaha has the technology from other divisions to make it happen but they choose not to.
And about the exhaust, have you seen the short exhausts on sport bikes now days? Remember, Yamaha got rid their undertail dual exhaust on the R1 in 2015 and went back to the conventional side mount so to say it needs it coming out the back is simply not true and even if they did need the length, there would be all kinds of room up front with the engine spun around 180....ever see under the hood of a 1200 Doo??? Talk about wide open spaces in the nose of the sled! Also Cat uses this spot for their intercooler because there is so much room.

 

[actionjack]

Well the point I was trying to make about the sales is the Procross cooperation agreement cannot be ended at this point because they won't have any sales unless they have something else to offer - meaning the next flagship sled from Japan.
I'll bet we do see Yamaha 2 strokes in Cats
AND
Expanded Procross offerings like variable tune
AND
New flagship sled, evolved Apex without rear exhaust and Procross/Rev/CC race Nytro inspired front geometry - lighter than current Apex and more power. Possibly with the 1049 Turbo - I think this rod change was a big F up threatening the release of this sled if they were planning the flagship to be a factory turbo.

 

[GeFeldz]

13,500 RPM? I know it spins higher but are you sure it spins that high??? And obviously I realize its not a direct swap but I'm sure 75% of the components could be the same. My point is that Yamaha has the technology from other divisions to make it happen but they choose not to.

It has max hp at 12500 rpm and that's where you'd want to keep it in a sled, requiring a larger down gearing. Besides, not a lot of people are unhappy with the current motor and power. Most complaints about the apex are about weight and outdated-ness. If people are happy with the motor, and almost everyone is, why would Yamaha change it? It costs a lot of money to re-engineer stuff even if it's "just" this or "only" that and dropping another motor in requires engineering, testing, developing new tools for the manufacturing machinery, fine tuning the manufacturing process with the new tools as well as extra quality control to make sure the new components are up to snuff. This is something you don't do if you don't have to. Don't expect a new motor until they make a new platform, that's when the big engineering happens. I'd be perfectly happy with the same motor in a new chassis, just with the oil filter reachable without taking the sled apart.