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New Heavy Duty/High performance clutching for My Sidewinder this season

sledding rocks said:
more info on the Tapp , out on the lakes yesterday 2-3 inches of hard pack snow 130mph on max 17 with multiple long pulls 9300-9400 rpm . need to add more weight to get rpm down , this sled is a animal on top end , stock secondary 35 helix , b/o spring 6-3 ,
also all the guys I'm running with that r using stm secondary r using 46/36 , purple spring , middle hole r working good also . this will be what ill be trying next once I receive my stm clutch , I believe this sled is capable of 140mph on max20 on bare ice conditions ,
Click to expand...

From my experience spinning the same RPM at first, I would recommend adding weight using 2 1.75” roller bolts and 4 washers on each bolt. Bolts must be on opposing sides to maintain balance. This brought my top end RPM down nicely without sacrificing bottom end.
 

Anyone run the stock secondary with the TAPP primary?
 
Sledding rocks
Looks like your setup is working well.

stock secondary is usually pretty close
Yamaha or cat

for the others running 32 finish I have to guess the sled is slow???
I have never found on a cat a finish below 36 to work while maintaining performance. I ran the green spring in softest setting. You could use a softer spring in reality I just didn’t spend much time on it. If you run hard pack it works really well. Get in a lot of loose snow you’re going to build heat. There is no way one thing works for all conditions on something you want optimum performance out of.
There has to be way to much clamping force in primary to run a 32 finish in secondary. Jmo

I ran a 4 arm STM with STM 11 inch secondary with 46-38 finish and it worked well. Green spring soft setting.
I have a lot running 46-36 since it works well.
Problem i have is I put stock clutches and my setup back in my sled and it is faster
I hate the quality of stock crap but I like the performance and belt life.
I am putting a Taylor shaft in a sled currently for next season so I can run a 12-16 pro cross secondary.
Starting with a 44-40 on that which is what we ran on 1100 turbos

Traction is the whole deal. I can put my clutching on a sled that spins all the time and it is not going to work.
I’m running 1.63 triggers with angled backers in a 1 inch hacksaw. Running 64 less studs than standard backers with better hook
good info in thread
 
Last edited:
My 43/34 Dalton, with my Dalton black/purple Spring in my Pro 4 secondary, along with my TAPP empty(no Allen screws or washers at all on the through bolts), +1 rollers and With my clickers on #4, and XS belt seems to be working great so far. Secondary warm and TAPP cool/cold, Power and snap feels super. That black/purple spring is pretty strong, but very satisfied with the performance/power so gonna stick with it.

Will be heading up for one last trip first weekend in March...hoping for some good riding then.
 
J & J Racing said:
Sledding rocks
Looks like your setup is working well.

stock secondary is usually pretty close
Yamaha or cat

for the others running 32 finish I have to guess the sled is slow???
I have never found on a cat a finish below 36 to work while maintaining performance. I ran the green spring in softest setting. You could use a softer spring in reality I just didn’t spend much time on it. If you run hard pack it works really well. Get in a lot of loose snow you’re going to build heat. There is no way one thing works for all conditions on something you want optimum performance out of.
There has to be way to much clamping force in primary to run a 32 finish in secondary. Jmo

I ran a 4 arm STM with STM 11 inch secondary with 46-38 finish and it worked well. Green spring soft setting.
I have a lot running 46-36 since it works well.
Problem i have is I put stock clutches and my setup back in my sled and it is faster
I hate the quality of stock crap but I like the performance and belt life.
I am putting a Taylor shaft in a sled currently for next season so I can run a 12-16 pro cross secondary.
Starting with a 44-40 on that which is what we ran on 1100 turbos
good info in thread
Click to expand...

Yes I agree, I’ve had good luck with low finish angles with lake racing gears but if you’re running stock Sidewinder gears or only one tooth steeper the 36 or 38 finish angle with the XS belt Is good for all around use. The 32 would be a better choice with 8dn or tall lake race gears. Actually in loose snow conditions the lower finish angle the belt usually runs a little cooler then with a steeper finish angle. The shallower angle tends to prevent over shifting imo.
I have always run super shallow finish angles with the 8DN belt, worked great. I could never really over squeeze that belt.
The XS belt is different belt, At high linear belt Speed It will run hot if you over pinch it. It won’t blow up but it will run hot if you run a clutch setup that works with the 8dn.
I actually believe the 32 finish angle Would work well with the XS belt but you would need to Run a weaker spring. Something like the arctic cat red /white.
 
Would over-pinching the belt color the clutch faces? I always associate darker clutch faces with slippage but maybe I need to change my thinking with this softer belt?
I am thinking of trying my stock secondary with the TAPP. I have to check my spring selection and see what I can run in that with the 35 degree helix. Open for suggestions. I seem to be getting some inconsistent results with my Pro-4, which doesn't make sense as it is a tried and true design.
 
Yes
There is a fine line to run with the angles
Steeper number quicker upshift and the more you get away with usually the quicker the sled is all things equal meaning a softer belt.

I try to find that on my own stuff
I have a sickness!! I used to drag race a lot but don’t so much anymore, for some reason I feel the need to still make as much power and speed as possible out of my trail sled???
I set up for hard pack since n wi and up are usually that.
Lowering the angles are better in loose stuff as you stated not to over shift in those situations.
It is also SAFE to sell to consumers for belt life

I’ll live on the edge looking for et:die
 
STAIN said:
Would over-pinching the belt color the clutch faces? I always associate darker clutch faces with slippage but maybe I need to change my thinking with this softer belt?
I am thinking of trying my stock secondary with the TAPP. I have to check my spring selection and see what I can run in that with the 35 degree helix. Open for suggestions. I seem to be getting some inconsistent results with my Pro-4, which doesn't make sense as it is a tried and true design.
Click to expand...


No you’re right..a darker sheath would indicate some slippage. My Yamaha dealer in N. Maine when we adjusted my secondary, we cleaned the sheaves of my pro 4, and he pointed my slippage out to me showing me where mine was slipping/the darker color as well. And said I/we needed to wrap the spring a bit more.

This tech/mechanic is a very knowledgeable tuner..works and communicates with Dave over at Powder Lites about the TAPP.. so he is very familiar and knowledgeable with these set ups. Our adjustment made a significant difference in performance for my sled. He also said the XS does take more time to break in, before it provides max performance.
 
I ask because I find it hard to believe I am slipping the secondary with a Dalton white spring wrapped at 1 right of center and a 32 finish angle...…..
I really don't like to run a monster secondary spring.
 
STAIN said:
Would over-pinching the belt color the clutch faces? I always associate darker clutch faces with slippage but maybe I need to change my thinking with this softer belt?
I am thinking of trying my stock secondary with the TAPP. I have to check my spring selection and see what I can run in that with the 35 degree helix. Open for suggestions. I seem to be getting some inconsistent results with my Pro-4, which doesn't make sense as it is a tried and true design.
Click to expand...

Yes it can. Over pinching does not let go of the belt and can create too much heat as well. Anytime the sheaves get hot, it can smear some dark coloration on to them from the belt.

I told you guys some time back to go back to the stock secondary to get a handle on the primary push. Now that I'm using the RX-1 primary instead of the Winder primary, I can now run normal springs (stock and Dalton B/O) in the secondary, even using the 8JP! The problem I found was in the primary all along. The only way you can learn something new is try things and start ruling them out. I was convinced the issue was the Winder roller secondary until I started swapping it back into the mix. I never thought I would be able to go back to the 8JP or the winder secondary with lighter secondary springs.
 
J & J Racing said:
Sledding rocks
Looks like your setup is working well.

stock secondary is usually pretty close
Yamaha or cat

for the others running 32 finish I have to guess the sled is slow???
I have never found on a cat a finish below 36 to work while maintaining performance. I ran the green spring in softest setting. You could use a softer spring in reality I just didn’t spend much time on it. If you run hard pack it works really well. Get in a lot of loose snow you’re going to build heat. There is no way one thing works for all conditions on something you want optimum performance out of.
There has to be way to much clamping force in primary to run a 32 finish in secondary. Jmo

I ran a 4 arm STM with STM 11 inch secondary with 46-38 finish and it worked well. Green spring soft setting.
I have a lot running 46-36 since it works well.
Problem i have is I put stock clutches and my setup back in my sled and it is faster
I hate the quality of stock crap but I like the performance and belt life.
I am putting a Taylor shaft in a sled currently for next season so I can run a 12-16 pro cross secondary.
Starting with a 44-40 on that which is what we ran on 1100 turbos

Traction is the whole deal. I can put my clutching on a sled that spins all the time and it is not going to work.
I’m running 1.63 triggers with angled backers in a 1 inch hacksaw. Running 64 less studs than standard backers with better hook
good info in thread
Click to expand...
yes im very happy with my set up ,my buddy which has a 300hp tune , stm clutch front and back , 46/36 using a epi purple spring middle hole also works good ,but my set up pulls him on top end , but in a drag race he gets me , most sleds r way that r using stm secondary r 46/36 purple spring and work very well .im still using the 8jp belt with good success and my buddy also is using the stock cat belt on his stm set up .we run big lakes and long distance , sleds r geared at 1.68 , personally the big heavy springs r not needed for the secondary , im using the dalton v2 black / orange at 6-3 , clutches r clean , at 6-2 my clutches should alittle smear of belt , and your right not one setup will be perfect for all condition , less snow restriction means less heat on the clutchs , more snow load more heat , I did order a stm secondary and will try it to see if it will give me the top end like my stock secondary is giving me now , I have no I hopes
 
STAIN said:
Would over-pinching the belt color the clutch faces? I always associate darker clutch faces with slippage but maybe I need to change my thinking with this softer belt?
I am thinking of trying my stock secondary with the TAPP. I have to check my spring selection and see what I can run in that with the 35 degree helix. Open for suggestions. I seem to be getting some inconsistent results with my Pro-4, which doesn't make sense as it is a tried and true design.
Click to expand...
try the dalton v2 black/orange at 6-3 with the 35 helix , stock secondary , Tapp black spring , 1mm roller , 2 Allan screws each arm , no washer , 290 hp
 
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