New Heavy Duty/High performance clutching for My Sidewinder this season

[snowbeast]

Pete, I run V1 at 90* on mine. V1 slides on with ZERO wrap at 40* So does the V2.

Myself, I don't see the difference between the two other than the paint stripe.

Thanks Mike,because of all the great data you have given us to try,i may now even retry the stock yellow wrapped to only 60* so it does not coil bind on stock 35 helix,my set up now is Dalton 41/35 wrapped to 60* with his blk/tan I think if I stay with that set up,i will run it only to 50* 60* seems to still create more heat than I like. Or if I was to stay 41/35 and Dalton gen1 wrapped to 80* what do you think Mike? Also my winder primary does not appear to bind at all.

 

[KnappAttack]

Thanks Mike,because of all the great data you have given us to try,i may now even retry the stock yellow wrapped to only 60* so it does not coil bind on stock 35 helix,my set up now is Dalton 41/35 wrapped to 60* with his blk/tan I think if I stay with that set up,i will run it only to 50* 60* seems to still create more heat than I like. Or if I was to stay 41/35 and Dalton gen1 wrapped to 80* what do you think Mike? Also my winder primary does not appear to bind at all.

Well Pete, every sled is going to be different. What I can tell you is the Tan is plenty heavy at the finish pressure on a 35 helix with a 50* wrap. It's 300# lbs on my scale set at only 50*, and rapidly gets higher as its wrapped up compared to the B/O say at a 90* wrap is 280#.

As for helix it depends on what you want and what primary arms you are running along with the primary spring. My setup with Dalton arms, Black/Blue primary likes the straight 35 helix. I prefer to let it RPM quicker and higher than I have in the past. The Black/Orange secondary is higher pressure down low than the Tan and lighter up top, but needs more wrap on it than the Tan. The straight 35 is very tough to beat with Dalton arms. Seems like any more than that and the RPM spread gets too great from loose to firm snow and consistency goes in the toilet, also it gets a little lazy and unresponsive when you need it to go. Not that it won't accelerate better on a certain surface with more helix like ice, but put it in the snow and that's when you'll see more helix is just too much. These are trail sleds made to run in any condition we run on, so there are compromises that need to be made.

I keep telling you guys to put the complete secondary on the drill press scale, you learn a lot that a chart can't tell you when it comes to secondary pressures.

 

[ClutchMaster]

41-35, B/O @ 9-2 (actually only 70 degrees)

Could be SnowBeast mode?

Man I’m not so sure this guy is politically correct with that machine gun mowin down Skidoo riders, but I’m good with it.

 

[STAIN]

Try a 36 to a 40 finish

a 46 or 44 start

they work similar to cat old clutch I would assume. Looks like the STM ones which I have used.

glad to here it’s working good

That may work with the Pro-4 secondary but not sure it would with the stock winder secondary, which I am currently using.
I think when I test the Pro-4 secondary again I will try it with the EPI purple spring, which is a touch softer than the Cat green/Dalton white and the 42-34 provided with the clutch.

 

[ClutchMaster]

That may work with the Pro-4 secondary but not sure it would with the stock winder secondary, which I am currently using.
I think when I test the Pro-4 secondary again I will try it with the EPI purple spring, which is a touch softer than the Cat green/Dalton white and the 42-34 provided with the clutch.

How much weight did you have to loose on the Tapp going back to the Winder secondary?

 

[STAIN]

I took 2.5 grams out of each arm, 10 grams total. Not that it was correct before. My clutching was really inconsistent. Ambient temps made a big difference in RPM due to the over pinching of secondary, as explained to me my Knapp.
I have taken a ton of weight out since I got it. I think I am at the point now where I am going to leave it. I can fine tune from here with my clickers. I really like how this clutch, the TAPP primary, performs vs. stock, especially down low.

 

[WinterWolf]

That may work with the Pro-4 secondary but not sure it would with the stock winder secondary, which I am currently using.
I think when I test the Pro-4 secondary again I will try it with the EPI purple spring, which is a touch softer than the Cat green/Dalton white and the 42-34 provided with the clutch.

I use the Dalton 43/34 in my Pro 4.

 

[ISLANDRACING]

I'm going to try the AC Green ( took out the Black/Purple ) this coming weekend still with the 43/34. Still going to stick with the 8DN belt.

 

[WinterWolf]

I'm going to try the AC Green ( took out the Black/Purple ) this coming weekend still with the 43/34. Still going to stick with the 8DN belt.

Personally, I don’t think the belt is an issue no matter which belt you choose(although I do think the XS will take more abuse). See what you find with the AC green spring?

 

[STAIN]

What is your primary set up?
That green spring is within a fraction of the Dalton white.
As far as belt difference, it seems people are seeing a @400 rpm spread between belts, so that is a pretty big difference, 2 grams per arm weight difference.
The reason I don't use the 8DN on the TAPP is because it is SO hard that it will eventually groove the face of the clutch. That clutch is too expensive to run that hard belt in my opinion.

 

[ISLANDRACING]

What is your primary set up?
That green spring is within a fraction of the Dalton white.
As far as belt difference, it seems people are seeing a @400 rpm spread between belts, so that is a pretty big difference, 2 grams per arm weight difference.
The reason I don't use the 8DN on the TAPP is because it is SO hard that it will eventually groove the face of the clutch. That clutch is too expensive to run that hard belt in my opinion.

Complete specs were listed here: https://ty4stroke.com/threads/tapp-pro4.160075/

 

[snowbeast]

Pete, I run V1 at 90* on mine. V1 slides on with ZERO wrap at 40* So does the V2.

Myself, I don't see the difference between the two other than the paint stripe.

Thanks Mike,because of all the great data you have given us to try,i may now even retry the stock yellow wrapped to only 60* so it does not coil bind on stock 35 helix,my set up now is Dalton 41/35 wrapped to 60* with his blk/tan I think if I stay with that set up,i will run it only to 50* 60* seems to still create more heat than I like. Or if I was to stay 41/35 and Dalton gen1 wrapped to 80* what do you think Mike? Also my winder primary does not appear to bind at all.

41-35, B/O @ 9-2 (actually only 70 degrees)

Could be SnowBeast mode?

Man I’m not so sure this guy is politically correct with that machine gun mowin down Skidoo riders, but I’m good with it.

Maybe this could be me,next time up to camp,but I will be back to stock 35 and maybe b/o at 70 wrap instead of your 110* or 70* so if 9-2 is really 70* what is 6-1 really?

 

[J & J Racing]

That may work with the Pro-4 secondary but not sure it would with the stock winder secondary, which I am currently using.
I think when I test the Pro-4 secondary again I will try it with the EPI purple spring, which is a touch softer than the Cat green/Dalton white and the 42-34 provided with the clutch.

You need more finish angle imo on the pro 4 I don’t believe you should compare your 35 angle to what to run in pro 4. A lot of guys w 11 inch STM run straight 42. You get under 36 and you are pinching the #*$&@ out of the belt. You are also killing your top end pull from what I have observed. Yes spring would really need to be softer with a 43-34.
Secondary is being way over thought. You are really close to the stock calibration helix in most cases and you are proving this running a stock 35 degree helix and sled is now working well.

cats have always liked the 38 and 40 finish on turbos since 09
That is really close to a cat setup for the secondary

 

[J & J Racing]

41-35, B/O @ 9-2 (actually only 70 degrees)

Could be SnowBeast mode?

Man I’m not so sure this guy is politically correct with that machine gun mowin down Skidoo riders, but I’m good with it.

I agree

41-35, B/O @ 9-2 (actually only 70 degrees)

Could be SnowBeast mode?

Man I’m not so sure this guy is politically correct with that machine gun mowin down Skidoo riders, but I’m good with it.

I agree with this. Get that thing to come out harder. Maybe a 37 finish works with that tapp???

 

[ClutchMaster]

Maybe this could be me,next time up to camp,but I will be back to stock 35 and maybe b/o at 70 wrap instead of your 110* or 70* so if 9-2 is really 70* what is 6-1 really?

To check if your spring has accurate tang locations simply install the spring at 0-1, very little if no twist should be needed. It might actually not even touch the helix. Bring the wrap up until the helix starts touching the rollers/buttons, whatever wrap that happens to be is now considered zero degrees. As Mike stated the B/O Dalton zeros out at 40 degrees or 3-1. So 6-1 wrap is 70-40=30 degrees of actual wrap. 9-2=110 degrees minus 40 so the actual wrap is 70 degrees.
there really is no Magic number for twist or helix angles, once you get the heat under control, you can tailor the clutching to your liking. The 41/35 would possibly be better for good traction race setup, than a straight 35. The straight 35 should offer better response for the trail, the 41 should shift out harder. Generally a bit more spring force would be needed down low to prevent slippage, that’s why I suggested 20 degrees more wrap with that helix. When it does overcome the higher spring pressure it will shift out harder than the lower 35 angle. Not all sleds are the same.
Try something different or you’ll never know.