sandy8657
Pro
If Yamaha was serious about a snowcross sled, then they'd be building 600 cc and 800 cc snowcross sleds that were twin cylinder two strokes.
New snocross sled
- Thread starter yamy07
- Start date
2008 Nytro RTX
TY 4 Stroke God
No,No they wouldn't. Look at skidoo,They aren't not that good considering they have a 2 smoke and the "best chassis on snow".sandy8657 said:
FxsX24
Pro
- Joined
- Jan 20, 2007
- Messages
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- Location
- PitX Snocross track.Verona, NY
- Website
- pitxsnocross.com
2008 Nytro RTX said:No,No they wouldn't. Look at skidoo,They aren't not that good considering they have a 2 smoke and the "best chassis on snow".sandy8657 said:
there is no 800 class anymore
Story is on the website http://www.yamaha-motor.com/sport/event ... february_6 8_2009_brainerd_mn_results.aspx I hope its true that they are heading in the right direction, but it's a short season!
sedz
Extreme
I wouldn't blame the lack of succcess on the riders I think its more of a sled issue. They are handicapped by extra weigh and more importantly alot of weight in the wrong places (balance wise). To even out the weight of the heavier motor they have to lose weight on the chassis which looks to be causing durability issues.
I really think for the time being they should shift way more focus onto the freestyle side of it. In freestyle the weight doesnt wear you out as quickly and the sled only has to survive 8-10 jumps in a normal run. Power is not an issue in freestyle so having a expensive tweaked out motor isn't critical like snocross. They are on the right track with sponsoring mullin whos a huge improvement over jimmy blaze both on and off the sled. They should just sponsor some more top freestyler/freeriders and it would be alot easier to market. Look at the isoc races, whats doing yamaha more good? snocrossers just managing to qualify for mains or mullin going out and pulling huge tricks and flipping a big gap?
A smart move would be giving these freestylers the full on 'race' version of the nytro (all practice sleds included not just show sleds) and mechanic support. Practicing eats up the trail chassis, sure its hard on sleds regardless but a competitive race chassis sled holds up better (aside from the 08 xp rs). The fewer parts they break the more time they can spend practicing and will result in putting yamahas in the top 3 more often.
That would be my reccomendation to help yamaha market the nytro.
I really think for the time being they should shift way more focus onto the freestyle side of it. In freestyle the weight doesnt wear you out as quickly and the sled only has to survive 8-10 jumps in a normal run. Power is not an issue in freestyle so having a expensive tweaked out motor isn't critical like snocross. They are on the right track with sponsoring mullin whos a huge improvement over jimmy blaze both on and off the sled. They should just sponsor some more top freestyler/freeriders and it would be alot easier to market. Look at the isoc races, whats doing yamaha more good? snocrossers just managing to qualify for mains or mullin going out and pulling huge tricks and flipping a big gap?
A smart move would be giving these freestylers the full on 'race' version of the nytro (all practice sleds included not just show sleds) and mechanic support. Practicing eats up the trail chassis, sure its hard on sleds regardless but a competitive race chassis sled holds up better (aside from the 08 xp rs). The fewer parts they break the more time they can spend practicing and will result in putting yamahas in the top 3 more often.
That would be my reccomendation to help yamaha market the nytro.
Ghostrider204
Newbie
It's also kinda hard to get top riders to come over and only be able to offer them an Open class ride. It probably doesn't help that all of the other riders get twice as much track time.
sedz said:
Yeah, cause I can't get enough of watching 3 year old FMX tricks being performed on a sled over and over and over and over and over.
The Nytro wouldn't have been developed if it wasn't for racing.
sedz
Extreme
AKrider said:
i think you missed my point, from a marketing standpoint there has been very little to write home about from racing. To me it would make more sense putting some more time and effort into a discipline that shows the sled in a better light. In racing all that is happening is people seeing the yamahas break and have troubles during a race and ending up way outta contention. No one outside of yammy faitful looks at whats happening and says 'oh theyre doing good its just a developmental race team'.
With freestyle the sled does not appear as inferior to the general audience. I never said bail on racing, obviously its where they develop and test new technology. All im saying is that it would be more effective marketing to put more emphasis on freestyle.
I really don't think the older generations understand the whole freestyle/freeride movement or appreciate it. I wouldn't say the level of freestyle on sleds is all that far behind bikes seeing as how the same tricks that make up a top fmx run are being done on sleds regularly now. Im sure some would argue drag racing or oval racing is the coolest thing ever, people generally like stuff they can relate to. Alot of kids wanna jump and do tricks, and dont have the kind of money it takes to race snocross.
Also if there was more Yamaha's racing I think they would get some better finishes. In the last final there was 6-cats , 6 polaris and 2 skidoo's. That's just what yamaha raced against in the final. The odds of them placing high when they are so outnumbered is slim. Unless of course you have Tucker on a Yamaha. Will he ever lose. He has won every heat and Final he has run this year.
I know you are passionate about freestyle but it has not moved from carnival sideshow to legitimate sport in how many years? The best trick in the X-games was a joke as far as events go. It was the Levi show, Levi all the time and three other guys. Levi's trick was amazing, it had me glued to the TV. Thing is, it was a total circus act. Will he make it or die? I could care less if the other three did a back flip. So what? We've had that since what? At least '02 with sleds and '00 with FMX. Same thing with the double back flip. Pastrania did it in '06. Now 3 years later we see it with sleds.
I don't mean to take anything away from it because Levi had the guts to ride the sled and pull it, but still, freestyle snowmachining simply emulates what has already been done. Because the events are judged it becomes more of a popularity contest than a competition.
Racing is racing and if you beat the other guys it is much harder to minimize the impact of the victory.
Anyway, I guess your suggestion rubs me the wrong way and started me on a rant.
I simply don't see what benefit freestyle can bring to the general public as far as making their consumer sled better? It is a very specialized venue where the suspensions are set up for one big hit. That doesn't even translate as well into consumer sleds as does snocross which has very little to do with what the average guy ever sees on the trail.
I don't mean to take anything away from it because Levi had the guts to ride the sled and pull it, but still, freestyle snowmachining simply emulates what has already been done. Because the events are judged it becomes more of a popularity contest than a competition.
Racing is racing and if you beat the other guys it is much harder to minimize the impact of the victory.
Anyway, I guess your suggestion rubs me the wrong way and started me on a rant.
I simply don't see what benefit freestyle can bring to the general public as far as making their consumer sled better? It is a very specialized venue where the suspensions are set up for one big hit. That doesn't even translate as well into consumer sleds as does snocross which has very little to do with what the average guy ever sees on the trail.
7 skulls said:
That is kind of harsh – I’m sure they are working non stop with 100% dedication. They score low – but they are fast – in a relative way.
But….you are absolutely right …..Hibbert and Bender (Polaris)…… are old guys have a lot of depth. This is not some backyard event – the setup guys of the winning teams are world class. They have been going since the 70’s.
Competition breeds competition.
So…..Yamaha may have found some stuff, and is faster - but the front running teams are going faster every weekend as well.
I’m not pointing at any specific team…but the new guys just don’t get it.
The other year…I saw a factory Polaris sled (not the consumer mod – the factory sled) up here. I noticed a ton of things Bender had done.
Small things – but they all add up. Not one person I stood beside noticed anything different in the sled.
The biggest relief – was hearing it run. Having only come back a couple years ago to racing – I assumed nobody could jet anymore. That Bender prepped sled just screamed throughout its range…. the thing was jetted and jetted well. Nobody had a chance.
We watched the Yamaha last year up here….I was in the pits looking at it. They claim more HP than anyone…weight is not an issue as stated in a press release….........the drivers were not comfortable – the shifting didn’t sound good. The sled had all the book stuff done – but not the million little things required to win.
So – you are right – the sled is engineered to win and it will…..the guys just need to keep working…and they will.
Competition is tough - World class tough - it won't be easy.
sedz
Extreme
RJH said:
Is yamaha actually gonna admit that weight is an issue in their own press release? From riding my nytro on snocross tracks and jumping it weight is certainly an issue. Even with their full on race chassis sled that is a longggg ways from a production Nytro the extra weight is still in the wrong places. Look at all the things they have been trying to compensate with, moving the fuel cell to the back bumper.
Its not so bad on a trail but out on a track you can't help that the motor is heavy and forces alot of weight to be front end bias.
I do believe that eventually the 4strokes will take over but I dont see them making the cut being 3 cyl. In mx they're only dealing with 1 cyl so the 10 or so extra pounds is not a big deal.
My point about marketing is having people see a yamaha having sucess in a discipline of snowmobiling will result in more people buying the sleds. More sales, more resources to develop better trail sleds.
I will agree that the next trick was terrible aside from levi, parsons trick would have been awesome tho. Jimmy blaze had nooo business being in that. Shoulda been parsons, frisby, levi and dane. Frisby and parsons had huge tricks in their freestyle runs and speed n style. I think speed n style is where its at, best of both worlds ...snocross and freestyle, shows who has all around sled skills.
Are any other brands really using snocross chassis directly in their consumer production sleds? NO, aside from doo. The xp may be a good trail sled but its still far from comparable to true race bread chassis like the polaris and cat. Polaris proved what works on the track isn't always so good for the trail with the rr sled. Just like skidoo proved the opposite with the xp in 08. Sure some technology does transfer but not all that much directly.
