New TAPP Secondary

[Upstater57]

The diameter of this new clutch reminds me of the bearcat secondary we used to run on our old Tcats. That required a longer belt. TAPP will need to get a proper belt length figured out before he sells these for 998's. As I remember the old days, the larger diameter secondary acted like a shorter gear off the line with ice picks making the sled a little quicker and offered the opportunity to use a steeper helix like a 60/40. However, without good traction, it made little to no difference. With that said, we all know the 998 is a different animal. Looks like it has adjustability. It will be interesting to see how this unit operates. That might make it worth looking at.

 

[Turboflash]

How much of the larger diameter will primary be able to use?
If one wants to use the larger diameter (using a longer belt), and if primary can't shift far enough, you end up with a ratio that is lower (less top speed) up top.

 

[Dave Forsyth]

Note this is always TAPP primary 8.4" Roller spider that when used sidewinder is 300 HP and using TAPP button and same setup it will pull down RPM by approx. 600RPM because of efficiency. TAPP secondary has been designed to be the most back shift or torque sensing & efficiency of HP transfer we can get. Yes longer belt was used by Maxceration with 11.4" secondary.

 

[Turboflash]

Note this is always TAPP primary 8.4" Roller spider that when used sidewinder is 300 HP and using TAPP button and same setup it will pull down RPM by approx. 600RPM because of efficiency. TAPP secondary has been designed to be the most back shift or torque sensing & efficiency of HP transfer we can get. Yes longer belt was used by Maxceration with 11.4" secondary.

Ok, makes sense now. Must use Tapp primary to be able to utilize additional diameter of this secondary. Got it.

 

[KnappAttack]

How much of the larger diameter will primary be able to use?
If one wants to use the larger diameter (using a longer belt), and if primary can't shift far enough, you end up with a ratio that is lower (less top speed) up top.

To make use of larger diameter secondaries, you need to utilize a wider and longer belt to get more overall ratio usage top and bottom along with not limiting belt travel and pulling belt in half. Takes lots of trial and error to get the right belts.

I did lots of testing back in the day on my 1000 Improved Stock Cat I held ET and speed records with. Used the Bearcat secondary with wider and longer belts. You'd think it would certainly be beneficial on the asphalt on high speed 1/4 mile runs at least, but found absolutely zero improvements over standard sized secondaries and regular ratios. ET and speeds were the same no matter the combo we ran or tried ice or asphalt. In fact, it was a bit harder to make the larger secondaries and wider belts to run the same numbers we ran with the standard sized setups. So threw the stuff on the shelf or even kicked it out the door and sold it. Spent lots of time and money chasing things like this, (wider working ratios) that should have worked better than they did.

 

[Srxspec]

I will hopefully have a Tapp primary, 11" secondary and 11.4" secondary soon to try. My plan is to compare them to the OEM Yamaha clutches on a 2025 Sidewinder SRX with PEFI Stage 4 tune first. Then I will run them on a 2024 Thundercat with MC Xpress Stage 3 turbo kit (new turbo, larger intercooler, and the MCXpress header) as well against the OEM Cat clutches as well.

 

[KnappAttack]

I will hopefully have a Tapp primary, 11" secondary and 11.4" secondary soon to try. My plan is to compare them to the OEM Yamaha clutches on a 2025 Sidewinder SRX with PEFI Stage 4 tune first. Then I will run them on a 2024 Thundercat with MC Xpress Stage 3 turbo kit (new turbo, larger intercooler, and the MCXpress header) as well against the OEM Cat clutches as well.

I think you're gonna like the TAPP primary Allen. Adding weight to the bolt is still a pain as the cover has to come off, but it's not too bad, not as easy as having Dalton arms in the Yamaha primary for weight changes. Weight in the arms vs on the roller bolts react differently as you'll find out.

TAPP primary is a nice piece, if it has the button spider it will take some break-in as the stiction changes a bit from new to having some miles on. The roller spider primary you may still find a bit noisy, but wont need the break-in to loosen up, its already loose.

Doubt you'll find any track HP gains with good setups on any of these clutches, unless using a worn out and warped Winder primary of course. I found the old style RX-1 primary to be the better over the stock Winder primary that has some miles on it. they seem to made of cheap China materials and warp/flex with any real power applied to them. Maybe above a certain power level the TAPP primary could show some slight gains as It can hold big power levels better, but seems the old style RX-1 or Apex primaries can also hold 300 HP levels easily enough without issue.

 

[STAIN]

Mike, do you feel like the TAPP upshifts more aggressively than any of the stock primaries?
Yamaha, ADAPT or TEAM---I felt like the upshift was more aggressive/quicker with the TAPP.
I will be running the ADAPT this year on my new RIOT 9000.

 

[KnappAttack]

Mike, do you feel like the TAPP upshifts more aggressively than any of the stock primaries?
Yamaha, ADAPT or TEAM---I felt like the upshift was more aggressive/quicker with the TAPP.
I will be running the ADAPT this year on my new RIOT 9000.

Any good primary clutch can be made to apply more force depending on parts and components used, so no, not nessarally. That said, I've not used an ADAPT primary myself, but a snowmobile clutch is pretty basic and I feel any good primary can be made to work as well performance wise as any other. The TAPP has sheave angles that start low and get progressively steeper, so that may give you the feel of more grip down low, but any clutch tuned properly should apply the same track HP as any other clutch if it doesn't bind up while shifting thru the travel. Some clutches are more prone to this at larger power levels so there is that variable. The stock factory Winder (which is made in China I believe) primary is one that has shown to me to be weak in this regard. It doesn't hold up well to flexing & binding under big power loads up over 270 or so. It's the reason I like the old RX-1, Apex and older Yamaha Japan made primaries.

The TAPP is nice because its billet, 4 arms and has some nice adjustability like the old Ski-Doo TRA primary, it'd be even better as a 6 arm design. The TAPPS are not perfect however and could use better rollers and smoother roller axles along with a few other better and stronger pieces, which I think they have improved upon over the years. I've replace the rollers in mine with the better quality OEM Ski-Doo rollers already which have proven to last longer then the rollers they came with.

 

[remo1356]

Any helix recommendations for my Yamaha setup? 2019 SRX. Hurricane stock muffler bundle. It strictly a trail sled. Brian at Tapp is saying to go with a straight 42. Just wanted a second opinion.

 

[remo1356]

I will hopefully have a Tapp primary, 11" secondary and 11.4" secondary soon to try. My plan is to compare them to the OEM Yamaha clutches on a 2025 Sidewinder SRX with PEFI Stage 4 tune first. Then I will run them on a 2024 Thundercat with MC Xpress Stage 3 turbo kit (new turbo, larger intercooler, and the MCXpress header) as well against the OEM Cat clutches as well.

What are they recommending for a helix?

 

[Turboflash]

Just interesting info - base weight for stock TCAT Team primary was 74 grams (and was very close to correct on stock sled). Base weight on ADAPT is 66 grams (which IMO is 2 grams too much). So really ADAPT TCats should be 64 grams. Team was 74 grams, a difference of 10 grams per arm. That's allot. ADAPT weights have more leverage because they're on a bigger diameter. Since engagements are about same, the ADAPT primary spring is allot lighter (both pre-load and rate) than Team. The secondaries use the same spring, however, the helixes are very different. Team system used a compound helix (58-49.15 (which is pretty close to a straight 49)). ADAPT uses progressive (58-49). To me, that says since both setups produce about the right engine RPM, the ADAPT's much lighter primary weights and lighter spring require a more aggressive secondary helix. The Team setup, with it's heavier primary weights and spring, needed less secondary helix to get right shift speed.
Just an example of how there's more than one way to get to the goal. IMO, if you can make it work (meaning no slippage, nice looking shift curve, good belt life, etc), the lighter setup produces less belt/clutch heat and wear.

 

[STAIN]

I have spoken to Justinator about the helix angles with ADAPT clutch and he seemed to prefer the 58-49.15 VS. the 58-49
I will be experimenting with these some this winter. This is my first year with an ADAPT

 

[Turboflash]

I think if I were to use 58-49.15, I'd have to add a bunch of primary weight to get it to shift up fast enough. Then, backshift might be lazy. Otherwise, I bet I'd be all over rev limiter. Track/studding/HP of course all matter huge.
I have my brand new 1.25" Rip1 w 192 1.74 Roetin Hornets hoping for better forward bite. Tune is mod-stock turbo PEFI Stage 4 so I need all the forward bite I can find to try to keep up with all you go-fast guys.

 

[justinator]

I have spoken to Justinator about the helix angles with ADAPT clutch and he seemed to prefer the 58-49.15 VS. the 58-49
I will be experimenting with these some this winter. This is my first year with an ADAPT

Yes sir and I stand by that. The 58/49 progressive works on plowed roads, extreme hardpack like early snow conditions with low snow and very cold weather that sets up very hard and ice as well providing you have steady and consistant traction. When winter sets in and your riding in more snow, looser snow etc consistant and good traction becomes harder to come by is where the full progressive helix doesnt work well. The compound cut will backshift better than the full progressive all day, everyday as it should.........its basically a straight 49..... 99% of your backshift comes from the secondary. I have run stock adapt weights all the way up to 84-85 gram stingray flat profile weights with same secondary setup and backshift isnt noticably effected. The heavy stingray weights are less responsive to throttle inputs as light weights but they pull VERY hard and rpms are consistant and backshift is good getting back to correct rpms. Now the key info here is that we are talking 146 sleds. A 137 sled on snow is not even close to comparable to the 146 in terms of traction. When you spin the 146 and it finds traction its alot different than a 137 spinning and finding traction. Ive had both and the 137 is more forgiving on clutching imo. The 58/49 progressive on my riot even using stock adapt weights would slip an xs827 or 829 to the point of chattering and vibrating in my riot on hurricane 300. But on real good firm snow it would work well. I used it on the last ride we did with that sled on beautiful early morning spring conditions and I had no complaints. Its the rest of the winter that I disliked it. On a 137 results may be very different. I like a consistant setup since conditions change day to day.