No Rebound!

[Blue Giant]

Maybe it's just me but I swear there is still something wrong with my Vector's suspension. Perhaps some of you will remember my post "The Sweet Spot" a couple of weeks ago. While making a final adjustment to the transfer rods tonight I noticed that when I sit on my sled the suspension hardly drops. If I pick the sled up from the rear bumper the sled moves at least 5/6 inches before the skid comes off the ground. It will then drop about 4" when i push down and at this point becomes very stiff and not return upwards. It feels as though I am bottoming out but I'm no where near having the skid couple let alone bottom. Compared to my Doo parked beside it there is literally no suspension.

Is this normal? I hope I'm explaining myself correctly.

I'm growing extremely frustrated and dissapointed with this sled

Thanks,

Paul aka Blue Giant.

 

[kinger]

Ahhh I have the exact same problem with my old mans 05 vector and was just about to post. It actually has a 1.5" sag where is doesn't feel like it has anything left. he only has like 7" left measuring from the bumpstop.

We pulled the limiter strap down one hole and adjusted the control rods to the top of the range for most ski pressure.

To be honest I'm frustrated with his as well, it seems to handle like crap (VERY tippy) we are above average skilled riders and neither of us can seem to control it. We purchased the service manual and are making every adjustment possible to keep the skis planted. We also added dooly carbides this year to help with the darting. So far I'm not impressed with the sled, my viper is soooo much easier to ride and set up then his vector.

Need some help here vector experts!!

 

[Blue Giant]

Hey Kinger!

It is very frustrating, especially when so many are very happy with the way the Vector handles/rides. There are a few people here that are having troubles so I know it's not just me.

This is the 10th sled I've owned. The 4th brand new one.

 

[Oak Hill]

Blue Giant - 2 questions.

1. How much do you weigh?

2. What are your sleds current settings?

 

[Groomerdriver]

Blue Giant - 2 questions.

1. How much do you weigh?

2. What are your sleds current settings?

edit - looked back...he weighs 210 like me. I would get the ski shocks revalved softer, then tighten the spring 3/4 tight. Are you studded? I have 144 across the entire track and run 5" Doolies and are very satisfied with the way the sled handles

Blue - read my last post in the "rear shock..." thread the changes have helped, and I'm trying to find a different rear shock from a shock place (Deycore or B-Line)

Oak - we'll see what he says but if I remember right he's a BIG guy...250+. If this is true, IMO, the rear torsions need to be heavier. He's a candidate for a rear Ohlins (cuz he's so heavy). Needs the progressive rate spring in front, and possibly the front track shock valved tighter. IMO I'm starting to think if you're a cruzer like me, you want the transfer rods set at max transfer (to keep the skid from coupling = harsh ride), and IMO, spring the front shocks heavier and buy a bigger swaybar.

kinger - do you have your front ski springs tightened all the way or where are they? where is your limiter strap now? Pioneer Performace makes both a heavier swaybar and a heavier spring for the front end. If your transfer rods are set to the least amount of transfer, the sled will ride rougher/harsher.

Or you could buy an M-10 and put that on or a new Vector with the Monoshock.

 

[Oak Hill]

I have tryied the 13mm bar and the 12mm bar. The 13mm bar is way to stiff, it will rattle your cage. If the trails are smooth it is great, if the trails are anything less than smooth the 13mm bar will upset the sled in the corners and you cannot hold your line. The 12mm bar is better, but I still feel it is to stiff also, in anything but smooth trails. I went back to stock (11mm) smooth in the roughest corners and does not upset the sled. To cure body roll at no cost, just take the transfer out and ski lift and roll are gone. I prefer to run with full transfer, makes the sled fun to ride, softer ride, able to pull skis up over bumps and launchs great. Some may like the larger bars, but they are not for me. Just my 2 cents! 8)

 

[Blue Giant]

Thanks Gents!

Quick recap;

I'm 210lbs
Ski shocks set to med.
Front skid shock med/hard.
Rear spring cam on med.
No studs.

I just don't understand why I can push down on the tail of my Grand Touring and feel the spring in the suspension and have it boumce back up and when do the same to the Vector there is no bouce and I have to practicly stand on the rear bumper to make this thing move.

 

[Groomerdriver]

Thanks Gents!

Quick recap;

I'm 210lbs
Ski shocks set to med.
Front skid shock med/hard.
Rear spring cam on med.
No studs.

I just don't understand why I can push down on the tail of my Grand Touring and feel the spring in the suspension and have it boumce back up and when do the same to the Vector there is no bouce and I have to practicly stand on the rear bumper to make this thing move.

It's the rear shock. Mine does the same thing. Here's what I would try:

Get front ski shocks revalved much softer (dealer took out 4 compression shims and added one rebound shim) then tighten up front springs to 3/4 or more.

Transfer rods at full transfer

Cams on high

Get a progressive rate spring for the front skid shock. Dealer said mine came out of a Viper. Can get you specifics if you need it.

THis is where I would at least start. Next step will be a different rear skid shock, but not an Ohlins. Heavier rate ski prings could be next, then based on what Oak said, a 12mm SB would be last.

 

[RSVECTORFREAK]

Why wouldn't you want an ohlins for the rear skid shock. Is it too stiff???

 

[Groomerdriver]

Why wouldn't you want an ohlins for the rear skid shock. Is it too stiff???

My dealer #2 CLAIMS that even a soft valved Ohlins will not give me the ride characteristics I'm looking for. I read = still too stif.

And besides, If I'm gonna spend $400 + rebuilding, I'mm put an M10 in first. But that's just me! 8)

 

[kinger]

I don't think we should have to spend any money! The damn thing was over $8000 new it should be able to ride it without tipping it over. Last year within 50 miles it threw him off 3 times like a bucking bronco and the sled just sat thier idling, and we are experienced riders with over 20 years a peice on sleds, this is the first new yamaha of the family and was purchased because I had such good luck with my 02 viper.

Current settings are:

Front spindles all the way tight (this helped dramatically with ski lift)
Rear coil over spring tighented slightly past half way of yamaha spec
Limiter straps down one hole from factory
control rods set to max ski pressure
Cam at Medium

We haven't taken it out yet as we don't have enough snow to test handling but what has me concerned now is that the thing sags just sitting there and will not rebound the last 1.5", it comes up to that point and just stops, I'm thinking the limiter straps are the culprit so does that mean the more pressure I want to put on the skies the less rear travel I get?

 

[kinger]

BTW my old man is NOT an aggressive rider, more of a Grand touring type and the only advice we got from the dealer was to slow down...fricken bs

I wanted a vector because I love the power delivery but there is no way a aggressive rider could ride my dad's with out EXTENSIVE money and mods to keep it planted.

 

[Groomerdriver]

I don't think we should have to spend any money! The damn thing was over $8000 new it should be able to ride it without tipping it over. Last year within 50 miles it threw him off 3 times like a bucking bronco and the sled just sat thier idling, and we are experienced riders with over 20 years a peice on sleds, this is the first new yamaha of the family and was purchased because I had such good luck with my 02 viper.

Current settings are:

Front spindles all the way tight (this helped dramatically with ski lift)
Rear coil over spring tighented slightly past half way of yamaha spec
Limiter straps down one hole from factory
control rods set to max ski pressure
Cam at Medium

We haven't taken it out yet as we don't have enough snow to test handling but what has me concerned now is that the thing sags just sitting there and will not rebound the last 1.5", it comes up to that point and just stops, I'm thinking the limiter straps are the culprit so does that mean the more pressure I want to put on the skies the less rear travel I get?

I fully agree that one sholdn't have to spend the $$ to make it good. We didn't buy a ProX ditchbanger (Nytro or similar) and want to turn it into a trail cruiser. But as everybody says, this sled is perfect (sorry..I'm in a bad mood now).

If you don't want to spend ANY money, here's what I would try:

1. Cam at hard (max)
2.. Transfer rods at max transfer (full opposite of what you have now)
3. Track spring cranked as tight as you can.
4. I'd go back to limiter straps at factory middle.
5. DO you have Doolies or Stud Boy dual shaper bars?

IMO - the rear track shock is a big problem in this skid.

If you wanted to spend minimal $$, I would:

1. Buy heavier springs for ski shocks
2. Buy progressive rate spring for the track shock
3. Seems like the SB Shaper doolies are the hottest ticket.

I gotta say again, I have no issues with the handling of my sled. I think a little ski lift is a fact of life unless you want a skid so tight that it rides hard if you don't ride it hard. Right now with the revalved front ski shocks plus the stock spring tight, the front end ride is much much better! I might try heavier springs after I get 500 miles on the new setup, but we'll see. I rode a friends 02 Viper and my Vector at it's worst rode better than the Viper IMO!!!

 

[Groomerdriver]

BTW my old man is NOT an aggressive rider, more of a Grand touring type and the only advice we got from the dealer was to slow down...fricken bs

I wanted a vector because I love the power delivery but there is no way a aggressive rider could ride my dad's with out EXTENSIVE money and mods to keep it planted.

he told him to slow down!!! OMFG!!!

another thought for your Dad....could the clutching/engine braking be giving him a hard time? THe sled will act like a bucking Bronco if one doenst get the feel for feathering the throttle. I guess there's clutch kits out there that will help this...from who...I'm not sure who makes a REALLY GOOD one.

 

[twomorestrokes]

does that mean the more pressure I want to put on the skies the less rear travel I get?

Could be, but it depends on how you are achieving the increased spring pressure. I am learning about rear suspension settings along with the rest of you, so I may be way off base about why your sleds sits low and doesn't rebound.

You have tightened your straps, limiting middle shock/ spring extension capability, and you also have your transfer set at minimum transfer, fully coupling your rear and middle suspension. I think the tighter straps affect the rear of the skid more when set at maximum coupling (less transfer). Your torsion spring setting basically controls ride height (sit in), not really tension. Perhaps you have it set up so you can't take advantage of the full travel. Correct ride height is very important for comfort. If your ride height is not correct, the front and rear suspension couples at the wrong times and can result in an overly stiff ride.

The basic function of the limiting straps are to keep the middle shock from pulling itself apart on hard extension. I realize that it is sometimes beneficial to tighten these up to reduce ski lift, but I'm not a big fan of "sucking the straps down". I do have mine tightened to the second hole from top though, like a lot of you.

Please feel free to correct me on any points.