Oil & Oil Filters, there IS a difference!

[sleddheadd]

https://www.amsoil.com/products/oil_air ... _900px.jpg
I noticed your link has not tested Amsoil filters yet.Check them out!
Made with premium-grade full synthetic media. Ea Oil Filters feature advanced full synthetic nanofiber technology, making them the highest efficiency filters that are available for the auto/light truck market. AMSOIL EaO Filters are guaranteed for 25,000 miles or one year, whichever comes first, when used in conjunction with AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oil in gasoline and diesel vehicles in normal service, 15,000 miles in severe service.
www.SSOilTech.com or click on the link below

 

[BigMac]

The following is a link to a study of Synthetic oil life, the oil managed to last well over 10,000 miles!

After reading this, I revised the oil change interval on my car to 6,000 miles and don't fret if it goes over a bit.

Wow. That isn't even close to being a scientific study. Among other things, the lack of a control group makes their findings meaningless, and just one more set of anecdotes to add to the already mind-numbing hype and misinformation coming out of the oil companies and their marketing departments.

I do agree that modern engine oils, whether they're group II base stock or PAO-based, provide really good shear stability these days. I go 6000+ miles between oil changes routinely, just like my owner's manual says. And I only use synthetic oil in it in the winter.

Variation between oil filter brands is MUCH wider. One has to be more careful about selecting their oil filter than their oil, IMHO.

 

[Sled Dog]

Re: Cars

In Canada, they have brainwashed us into 5,000 km oild changes (4,ooo miles).


Re: Sled

I will change filter every time I change the oil. $10 extra, but worried about high Revs and Temp.

5000 km is only 3125 miles.

 

[nate007]

yeah, especially when Mark is our "on-site" Amsoil guy!

 

[yamadoo]

Sleddhead is a good guy and Amsoil is a good product, NOT the only or always the best. He will tell you exactly that if / when you meet him.

We rely on experience, word of mouth and slanted advertisements( as far from unbiased truth as possible).

The only way to truly know is to do the studies (BigMac refers to) with blinded investigators and control groups etc. But I think we know the quality ones, what we don't know is which of the cheap products have good quality.

Example: I always bought the best VCR tapes from (Scotch /3M) for our family videos only to find out later from a 3M engineer that it was cheaper for them to make 1 high quality tape and market it at cheap, mid and high quality than to make three machines to make three tapes of different qualities.

So because I am not sure how it goes with oil or filters I will pay a little extra to get the Mobile one or Amsoil and others and know I am getting quality rather than buy cheap and wonder.

BUT I bet there are cheap oils out there that are great, but which ones? Not going to take the risk.

My two cents, sorry so long .

Yamadoo

 

[Sled Dog]

I see the offending post was removed as well as one of mine with its quote I guess. This is a no brainer guys any and I mean any 100% synthetic oil with the correct viscosity is going to be just fine in theses sleds. I happen to think the Amoil is in the higher end of the 100% synthetics and if only changing oil once a year in each sled one might as well put the best in it.

 

[Rockmeister]

Rockmeister, I just wanted to say thank you for sharing that web link.
As soon as I got done reading the filter study I called my brother, (in KY), and guess where he was? In line at Auto Zone. I asked him if he was buying an oil filter, he was, I asked him which kind, he said "A Fram". Well, I gave him a quick explanation why and he ended up buying a Mobil 1.
We both have been using Fram for years, thank goodness we use the Tough Guard, and luckily so far so good, but we are switching for good now. Thanks again.

You are very welcome!

I also used them for many years until it ate one of my engines, etc.

I believe the Tough Guard is also made from cardboard end supports.
That's the one with the black rubber coated end, right?
I have one of those in my garage cut open to show people the cardboard.

As in many other cases, knowledge IS power!
At the very least, you can make a REAL informed buying decision.

Glad I could help!

 

[Rockmeister]

The following is a link to a study of Synthetic oil life, the oil managed to last well over 10,000 miles!

After reading this, I revised the oil change interval on my car to 6,000 miles and don't fret if it goes over a bit.

Wow. That isn't even close to being a scientific study. Among other things, the lack of a control group makes their findings meaningless, and just one more set of anecdotes to add to the already mind-numbing hype and misinformation coming out of the oil companies and their marketing departments.

I do agree that modern engine oils, whether they're group II base stock or PAO-based, provide really good shear stability these days. I go 6000+ miles between oil changes routinely, just like my owner's manual says. And I only use synthetic oil in it in the winter.

Variation between oil filter brands is MUCH wider. One has to be more careful about selecting their oil filter than their oil, IMHO.

Actually anecdotal evidence is something like "I FEEL like my car runs better on Brand X".

Scientific information is generally something you can repeatably and accurately measure.

These are simply guys with common sense actually taking the time to measure and study things that we use everyday.

They sent the samples to a real lab, and provided the real numbers to you and I.
More than you, I, or most here, are willing todo.

Did they do "control groups"? No.
Does that make the information they provided any less valuable? No. Only if you are looking for comparisions.

Cardboard is cardboard. Whether you measure it against steel, paper, plastic or anything else, doesnt change what it is.
Viscosity is viscosity, same as above.
I myself am VERY happy they took the time to answer some of the questions I had about products I use all the time!

Did they answer the question "How well does Mobile1 oil hold up?"
I believe so.
Did I KNOW this before? Not really.

Could they be out and out lying? Possibly.
(Reading the entire site and cross-checking other sources, I doubt they are lying, they were pretty honest about what they found and what they didn't understand. In scientific arenas, showing a willingness to openly say what you don't understand, is usually a good sign of how accurate the balance of the information is.)
Have we been lied to many times in advertising? Yes.

They didn't do a comparision to regular oils in the same conditions. Would regular oils hold up the same?
Possibly. I don't tend to believe that, BUT they could!
However, I KNOW (assuming they were truthful) that Mobile1 and Amsoil WILL!
I am ok with that and willing to put it in my vehicles without a concern on my part.

(The reason I use 6000 miles rather than 10,000 or more, is that I know it lasted 12,000 or so for them in their conditions. I don't know that my conditions are better, or worse, so Im tending to error on the safe side.)

My ONLY concern about Amsoil in my sled is the viscosity rise over time, as this will greatly effect start-up lubrication in the cold.
(This rise in viscosity over time surprises me also, as studies I have read on regular oils show a trend of viscosity dropping over time of use. (Viscosity breakdown) This is usually due to the polymers used to make the viscosity change over temperature, wearing out and the oil returning to the base viscosity. For example a 5w-30 returning to straight 5w. This is why your oil pressure usually tends to drop if your oil is worn out.)

As far as anecdotal evidence is concerned, I feel the W arms on the RX1 are weak.
Do I have a scientific study to prove it? No.
Do I know of many others that have broken? Yes.
Do I have control groups? No, not really.
However, we all have seen enough failures of them to KNOW it is something to watch for, all based on anecdotal evidence.
In some areas, anecdotal evidence is good enough.

My whole purpose in sharing this info was not to say "use this or that!".
It was to show that at least these two synthetics WILL last ok.
And that not ALL filters in a metal can are the same, be careful what you get.
I was personally burned by a bad manufacturer, hoping to save others the trouble and expense it cost me.
Like I said in my first post. I personally use NAPA gold filters, NOT because they are THE best, but simply because I know they are ONE of the better ones, and I can remember that! lol
I don't care to try to remember ALL of them!
Pick a safe one to use that you like and stick to it.

These guys were good enough to get REAL numbers over time.
So in the end, the information these people were willing to collect and offer for our use is SOOO much more than ANY oil company has ever given us.
They have answered, to my satisfaction, some simple questions.
I appreciate that.

 

[Rockmeister]

WOW!

Just when you thought it was safe to go out and change your oil...

Check this out.
http://www.ttalk.info/Zddp.htm

Zddp is an additive(with moly) that helps keep the wear in your engine radically down.
ESPECIALLY if you have flat tappets.
(The oil on your cam is being squeezed AND wiped off at the same time, in a bearing it is just being squeezed.)
This is a VERY important anti-wear additive!

Turns out that recently Zddp has been taken out of most of our oils. (Or at least greatly lowered in levels.)

So in the end, the mobile1 info gathered by this persons study may be null and void as the additive package may have changed since.

Hmmmmm... Great.

Anyone know how Amsoil, Redline, Mobile1, Schaeffer, or any other oils stack up with Zddp levels currently?

Until then I will probably use the GM EOS, a Zddp oil fortifier, with Mobile1.
(I still have 2 cases that are a year old.)
Personally, I hate using additives, as you never really know how they will react with the current additive package.

(IE: Will the additive make the oil foam? Air bubbles have almost NO pressure resistance, or lubrication capability compared to oil.)

Any links would be greatly appreciated!

 

[4Fighter]

I went to get the Yamaha filter this weekend, and the dealer was closed. Good thing I remembered this topic. I picked up a filter from NAPA instead, PS-1358 I think??? It's nice to have alternatives.

 

[wagmtrspts]

rockmeister,

I work for a Chevrolet dealership in the parts department and I hate to break it to you but EOS from General Motors has been changed to a new part number. It no longer has any Zinc in it as a lubricating property for protection. When we got the new part number in around December I ran the MSDS sheet and GM had taken Zinc out of it just like all the oil companies.

 

[Rockmeister]

rockmeister,

I work for a Chevrolet dealership in the parts department and I hate to break it to you but EOS from General Motors has been changed to a new part number. It no longer has any Zinc in it as a lubricating property for protection. When we got the new part number in around December I ran the MSDS sheet and GM had taken Zinc out of it just like all the oil companies.

Great...

Thanks for letting us know.

Have to do some more research and see what IS available!

Grrrrrrrr...

 

[Rockmeister]

With a bit more research, have found that Mobile 1 no longer has enough ZDDP for our sleds.

Good news is, Amsoil, Redline, and I believe the Yamaha oil does!
(Not positive about the Yamaha oil, so no guarantees. Do know they reformulated this year.)

The risk you run if using an oil with too low a level of ZDDP, is that you will rapidly wear down the cam lobes and the tappet end of the valves.

The tappets are flat and do not have rollers and therefore REQUIRE higher levels of ZDDP to lubricate them!

The cam is the highest wear point in our engines as the oil is squeezed AND wiped off at the same time.
This ONLY leaves the ZDDP to protect your valvetrain.
No ZDDP, No protection!

We have a couple of Amsoil distributors here on TY, they can help you to protect your engine!
(No, Im not a distributor, just trying to help. lol)

As you change your oil this fall in your sled, think hard about what oil and filter you use.
Your engine and fun depend on it.

 

[yamadog1]

0il

i have used amsoil for over 30 yrs always had good results, i like amsoil
filters or wix filters, i put 25000 miles on my oil changes, with using 1 filter.
sled i change every year which is only 1500-2000 miles i think with that
amount of miles you can't go wrong with any good oil.
i say run what you feel best in your machines, also been amsoil dealer
for 30 yrs and i gave more away to my friends than i sold.

 

[BADSLED]

https://www.amsoil.com/products/oil_airfilters/EAO_ExplodedFilter_900px.jpg
I noticed your link has not tested Amsoil filters yet.Check them out!
Made with premium-grade full synthetic media. Ea Oil Filters feature advanced full synthetic nanofiber technology, making them the highest efficiency filters that are available for the auto/light truck market. AMSOIL EaO Filters are guaranteed for 25,000 miles or one year, whichever comes first, when used in conjunction with AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oil in gasoline and diesel vehicles in normal service, 15,000 miles in severe service.
www.SSOilTech.com or click on the link below

Amsoil EaO Filters and Napa Gold are made by the same company and there is absolutely no difference between the two.