Phazer no start

[ThatOneGuy]

Been a while since I've been on here, Phazer made it quite a few thousand miles and a few years trouble free! So I got 08 phazer 8500 miles just started acting up starting, once running its fine doesn't miss a beat. I figured 7 year old battery was to blame since I jumped it with my RX1 when we were on the trail and got it back. Yesterday I was getting the sleds out of the barn and again crank and no start. Switched batterys from another sled with a new one and it fired right up no hesitation rode last night a couple more starts toruble free. Started this morning at 0*F fired right up. Ran and did a few things and a couple hours later got kids and wife ready for a ride and crank with no start. Took dads spare Apex for the day and had fun, now in the garage tearing into it.

Heres what I have found. Intermittent code 12. When cranking RPM reads all over the board 200 to 40 to 180 to 0 just completely random. This thing since 800 miles when I bought it always turned over very slow but ALWAYS started. I feel my sister in laws and my old one would spin 300 RPM starting and mine always less than 250 RPM. Stator is original heck the spark plugs are still original! Pulled the tank and verified no spark. Tested by setting the plug on the top of the valve cover in the coil. I got it this far apart and leaning towards crank sensor (sounds like its part of the stator assembly) but I figured I would change oil so I got the tank drained and the filter off.

I would imagine the crank sensor can be tested by spinning over by hand and watching OHMs? Any advice on which wires to check if I'm thinking correctly?

Thank you!

 

[ThatOneGuy]

I did go get my fluke and checked the crank sensor at the plug by the headlight. It would vary quite a bit 170 at some spots and 240 at others. I slowly rotated the crank. As it was rotating the meter was really dancing around but when at a rest would dance around a couple OHMs. Not 100% sure how it reads off the crank but that does seem a little odd to me but I did find after a lengthy search crank sensor should read 189-231 OHMs at 68*F. It is 2*F but in an enclosed shed with a bullet heater running on it when working.

 

[Mooseman]

First thing I would check on a crank no start is if it's fuel or spark. Do you hear the fuel pump prime for a couple of seconds when you turn the key to RUN? While cranking with the air filter box open, if you spray starting fluid, does it start and run for a second or two?

Has the fuel pump relay been replaced with the updated red one? If not, do that. Part # 8GN- 81950-00-00. It's solid state to fix an issue with cold weather starting.

 

[ThatOneGuy]

Yes sorry left that out. Fuel pump primes and it didn't even think of firing with a few sniffs of nose candy. I am down to diagnosing no spark. My crank sensor seems a little off and as cranking it will through 12 code just long enough to read it on the screen and go away. How fast do these need to turn over to fire the plugs? I will look into voltage drop maybe my starter is drawing enough to pull voltage down for no ignition?

Thank you!

 

[turbogts22]

During testing I've found they'll fire a spark just by rotating the clutch by hand. Your situation sounds most likely a bad crank trigger coil but could also be due to corroded connections. It'll require some digging around to verify.

 

[ThatOneGuy]

During testing I've found they'll fire a spark just by rotating the clutch by hand. Your situation sounds most likely a bad crank trigger coil but could also be due to corroded connections. It'll require some digging around to verify.

I know a guy that was a Yamaha tec now on his own and thats what he said they barely need to spin to fire and starters on these are just geared really slow. His experience was also the crank trigger reads shorted out or open circuit when bad if close to the spec its still good and he very rarely changes them. I have pulled the ECU connectors and various ones around the engine all are in great shape. On fuse had a little crud on it but cleaned that up. I got to service a groomer tonight after work Ill keep farting around with it when I can and report back if I do find something. If not any help appreciated!

Thank you!

 

[ThatOneGuy]

Re-checked pickup wires quite a few times last night and they were way off on OHM reading I just don't like how its not consistent. My multimeter is a new Fluke this year so I trust what its telling me. I pulled it all apart and got the stator and pickup off, local shop has a pickup coming for me from Parts Unlimited. ONLY thing I wish I did was trace wires back to ECU plug and check back there. But now I am much more confident the no spark is the dying pickup. Its not hard to do but I feel I should overhaul the engine since I'm this far! But that's the same feeling I get just changing the oil on it. With the pickup in the warm it now tests 800+ OHMs consistently just playing with it, it does change OHM reading when close or stuck to metal. I will report back if this venture does indeed fix this thing just in time for rain and mid 30's next week.

 

[ThatOneGuy]

Got the side cover gasket and got everything put together, instantly started idled very rough and died. Kept trying and same thing. Im working on this after a 10 hour day at work in a cold garage so my mind and patience isnt all there. I pulled the tank and plastic back off and checked spark, very good both plugs. Hooked back up thinking maybe coil didnt seat all the way in who knows. Still same thing rough idle and die cant keep it running longer than a few seconds. Called it a night checked over next day figured Id give the pickup wires a shot and flipped around so they are now ORIGINAL Black to NEW Black and ORIGINAL Grey to NEW White. Started up ran rough but better for a few seconds and purred like a kitten! So moral of the story if replacing the crank pickup with aftermarket just guess on the wires if it gains spark but runs rough switch them around. The connector is very easy to pop the pins out and flip around. There are little clips you push away from the pins to release them from the connector. Started many times and fires right off like it should now!

 

[Dynomax666]

Been a while since I've been on here, Phazer made it quite a few thousand miles and a few years trouble free! So I got 08 phazer 8500 miles just started acting up starting, once running its fine doesn't miss a beat. I figured 7 year old battery was to blame since I jumped it with my RX1 when we were on the trail and got it back. Yesterday I was getting the sleds out of the barn and again crank and no start. Switched batterys from another sled with a new one and it fired right up no hesitation rode last night a couple more starts toruble free. Started this morning at 0*F fired right up. Ran and did a few things and a couple hours later got kids and wife ready for a ride and crank with no start. Took dads spare Apex for the day and had fun, now in the garage tearing into it.

Heres what I have found. Intermittent code 12. When cranking RPM reads all over the board 200 to 40 to 180 to 0 just completely random. This thing since 800 miles when I bought it always turned over very slow but ALWAYS started. I feel my sister in laws and my old one would spin 300 RPM starting and mine always less than 250 RPM. Stator is original heck the spark plugs are still original! Pulled the tank and verified no spark. Tested by setting the plug on the top of the valve cover in the coil. I got it this far apart and leaning towards crank sensor (sounds like its part of the stator assembly) but I figured I would change oil so I got the tank drained and the filter off.

I would imagine the crank sensor can be tested by spinning over by hand and watching OHMs? Any advice on which wires to check if I'm thinking correctly?

Thank you!

just for fun, take a look at the 4 pin (with 3 wires in it i think) connector that goes in to your starter relay solenoid. newly aquired nytro threw a code 12 at me, and for some reason my mind went right to that relay, sure enough pulled panels off unhooked battery for a few minutes, and grabbed my dielectric spray and grease... saw a bit of green powder on that connector, pulled it,sprayed and cleaned it, put it back in fired rightup.... just check yours out, i'm curious. sled never ran bad before, or after this one time... but the connector was sure gummed up. this is one thing I do all summer, spend time going through these things from one end to the other, eventually getting every connector lubed up...