Primary Rollers

[Thunder Products]

KA, just curious what the difference in weight is between RX-1/Apex primary compared to stock Winder primary?

The SW clutch is lighter than the older version 4 stroke Yamaha primary. The reason for the lighter weight SW clutch is because Yamaha tried to find every gram/lb. of weight to remove from the Sidewinder cause of the addition of the turbo. Suspension bolts are smaller diameter and thread size also to shave weight. This is why the SW has it's own clutch and the Viper has the older version clutch.

As to all these past posts, the reason for the rollers going out is because of the SW clutch. In 2016 we blew a SW clutch in testing and the other SW we had the primary clutch was cracked. When we dissected that SW primary clutch, we found the weight pin bolt circle and roller pin bolt circle patterns were moved outward for more clamping force. This is where Yamaha went wrong. They took out the gusseting on the moveable sheave also.

We immediately went back to the previous style primary after our testing in 2016 and have been selling a bunch of previous style clutches to our customers.

This year I am also going to the apex primary.


What did you torque the primary bolt to with the apex clutch?
I bet the higher torque on the sidewinder clutch has alot to do with the shaft expanding on that cheap clutch.
When the sidewinders first came out the torque of that bolt was the same then yamaha changed to a higher setting due to clutches spinning on the stub shaft.

Also going to Apex primary this year with 911 response cover. Tired of changing rollers.
4 sets last winter.
The price of rollers and belts is higher then the cost of an Apex clutch.

Thunder Products Clutching is still telling everyone to torque the initial at 105 lbs., crack the main bolt loose and then re-torque to 48 lbs.

***for those swapping to a previous style 4 stroke clutch (DO NOT USE THE 2 STROKE CLUTCH!) 2 Stroke clutches do not have the windows in the Spyder and the large weights will hit in the 2 stroke clutch. Add 4 grams to your weights when switching from the SW clutch to the previous style and take out 4 grams out of the weights when going from a previous style 4 stroke clutch to a SW clutch. There have been a lot of swapping clutches between Vipers and Sidewinders. So hope this helps everyone.

 

[fatchance]

I guess I have been fortunate with my roller thus far. I replaced the stockers with thunder products 14.8mm at 50 miles. I kept the yamaha rollers in my bag so I could swap the set out trailside if I ran into issues. About 200 miles later I switched to xs825 belt, dalton weights, aligned using the hurricane bar and ran an additional 2300 miles at 270+hp with same belt same rollers. I dissasembled the clutch for cleaning and the rollers are tight and in mint condition. I did switch the 35-39 helix out for a 35 with yamah yellow spring and run a “light” setup in the front clutch. This gives me a consistent 9000rpms , very cool clutch running temps as verified on my razorback gauge , low dust clean clutch compartment and with that comes excellent belt life. I dont know if I got a “good” clutch or is it bad harmonics at certain rpm combined with heavy spring/heavy weight combos or something else. Not every single winder has roller issues. This thread has some good info with what others have tried and had better luck with so if the day comes my sled becomes a roller eater Ill have some good options to look into.

Ran heavy clutching for the last 2 seasons on the 290/300 tune and the Thunder rollers still look brand new. I replaced the stock rollers at 2000 miles and they were not bad at all after running the 270 tune for the majority of those miles. My primary always pissed me off every time i inspected it because the movable just never wanted to slide easily and would bind more often than not. That said i think i was getting the most out of the stock primary, but it's now in the scrap heap after replacing it with a TAPP. Which is silent by the way....

 

[Thunder Products]

Ran heavy clutching for the last 2 seasons on the 290/300 tune and the Thunder rollers still look brand new. I replaced the stock rollers at 2000 miles and they were not bad at all after running the 270 tune for the majority of those miles. My primary always pissed me off every time i inspected it because the movable just never wanted to slide easily and would bind more often than not. That said i think i was getting the most out of the stock primary, but it's now in the scrap heap after replacing it with a TAPP. Which is silent by the way....

Thunder Products Clutching just received 2 TAPP clutches and had them at the West Bend snow show. TAPP uses our rollers in their clutches. Great clutch and excellent machining!

 

[stevewithOCD]

Do you boys have experience with these TAPPs on this Winder?
If so, i may give you a call.

 

[Thunder Products]

Do you boys have experience with these TAPPs on this Winder?
If so, i may give you a call.

Soon, we just got them last week.

 

[fatchance]

Do you boys have experience with these TAPPs on this Winder?
If so, i may give you a call.

Steve, you could call Dave at Powder Lites. He's the developer of the TAPP. Real nice guy, he'll answer any questions you have about it.

 

[blevis213]

Not that I want to mess up my apex but could one say take his clutch from his sidewinder and put it on his apex with no issues?

 

[slimjim2525]

Not that I want to mess up my apex but could one say take his clutch from his sidewinder and put it on his apex with no issues?

This. Can i swap primary clutches between my winder and my 08 Apex?

 

[Thunder Products]

Not that I want to mess up my apex but could one say take his clutch from his sidewinder and put it on his apex with no issues?

You can switch clutches between any 4 stroke Yamaha. But, you would need to change clutching (as in grams for each weight).
Example, if you would switch the SW primary over to the Apex, you would need to lighten the weights somehow as the Apex is 160 and the SW is 200 hpr.
If you swapped the Apex weights into the SW clutch and put it the SW clutch on the Apex with the Apex calibration in it (spring & weights), you would need to lighten the Apex weights like 4 grams to get your correct rpm. This is because the SW clutch has a larger bolt circle for the weights and rollers which puts more force when flinging out....thus making the weight seem heavier.

This. Can i swap primary clutches between my winder and my 08 Apex?

Yes, they fit the same and have the same taper.

 

[02ViperMody44]

You can switch clutches between any 4 stroke Yamaha. But, you would need to change clutching (as in grams for each weight).
Example, if you would switch the SW primary over to the Apex, you would need to lighten the weights somehow as the Apex is 160 and the SW is 200 hpr.
If you swapped the Apex weights into the SW clutch and put it the SW clutch on the Apex with the Apex calibration in it (spring & weights), you would need to lighten the Apex weights like 4 grams to get your correct rpm. This is because the SW clutch has a larger bolt circle for the weights and rollers which puts more force when flinging out....thus making the weight seem heavier.



Yes, they fit the same and have the same taper.

Would you cut the clutch for overdrive, or is it not necessary when switching to an Apex Clutch? Any performance advantage to this?
TIA,
Rick

 

[Thunder Products]

Would you cut the clutch for overdrive, or is it not necessary when switching to an Apex Clutch? Any performance advantage to this?
TIA,
Rick

Cutting for overdrive will always give you the most MPH.

To answer your question....if you are looking for 130+mph, then you will want to cut for overdrive. This is all depending on gear ratio also.

 

[02ViperMody44]

Cutting for overdrive will always give you the most MPH.

To answer your question....if you are looking for 130+mph, then you will want to cut for overdrive. This is all depending on gear ratio also.

Thank you! Appreciate the response!