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Real World 1500 Mile Low Down of new Ski Doo XR-S 900 Turbo vs. SideWinder

Crossfire12 said:
when you clutch to the torque, quicker ET, pulls harder.
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WRONG. Quicker ET clutching to HP RPM as long as you have the belt grip and traction, which is hard to pull off on a snowmobile and most people have no clue how to do it so they think what you just said is true. Hence the squatch trying to blab the BS he blabs.
 

KnappAttack said:
WRONG. Quicker ET clutching to HP RPM as long as you have the belt grip and traction, which is hard to pull off on a snowmobile and most people have no clue how to do it so they think what you just said is true. Hence the squatch trying to blab the BS he blabs.
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He’s an Arctic Cat guy, what did you expect?
 
ClutchMaster said:
It’s just plain stupid to have electronic throttle control on a snowmobile. I can see it in a vehicle that needs traction control, cruise control and pre-crash control, all of which snowmobiles don’t have.
It’s a was bad decision to even use it.
M2C
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I wasn’t interested in the the 3 throttle modes just wanted 150 4s sled in a lighter platform than the Apex xtx. I test rode 900t in sport, a little in standard , zip in eco and bought an Enduro. Eco does have use in loading and unloading to avoid track spin and a lazy ride in Twistys with clubs and slower groups. Standard spools out nicely for rides with the guys for 200 mile day rides and Sport is great for blasting grades and wide open UPMI trails. I ride northern WI Twistys just as much as wide open UPMI Trails so it’s nice to have the different modes for each type of riding for maximum comfort and gas conservation when needed. I didn’t really think I wanted or needed the 3 different modes but have to admit they are nice to have. Doo did their homework on the various Renegade 900t models and has something for everyone in the 136 track market. The Enduro 900t isn’t supposed to compete with the Sidewinder power hungry go fast market but comparos are all part of snowmobiling.
 
Sasquatch said:
My original post was torque pulls your arms out. It was in reference to a Harley which was talked about, not a sled. A Harley relies on torque to get a very Large bike moving and it does it hard off the line, it will pull your arms out. You say torque is nothing without rpm yet rpm is nothing without torque. Torque and rpm are measurable parts of the equation hp is the result.

Now back over to the sled CV trans side. You take issue with the statement that increase torque at any rpm and hp increases, yet that is exactly what happens with boost and NOS. RPM remains the same but torque increases so hp increases with it. With our sleds our peak torque is made close to peak HP so torque not being important kinda goes out the window as well for that reason.

Now you jump back to turbines and a 10ft/pd 800hp motor spinning at 400,000 rpm if that is even possible and yep it has an application and the hp was indeed mathematically calculated by torque and RPM. But not practical for use in sleds as you suggested.

I am not wrong and I fully understand torque and RPM and their relation ship with HP. Its all about application and you say I caused confusion yet you went from Harley's to Sleds to Helicopter engines. Three different applications each one needs a different motor. So Torque and RPM have a different job in each one and the end result called HP plays a different role in each one as does torque.

You said less torque more hp wins the race yet that is not accurate and has been proven wrong over and over. The sidewinder makes a ton of torque from 6,000 to 9,000 rpm if you increases boost torque rises and so does HP yet RPM stays relatively the same. Now we can increase rpm but in sleds RPM is limited to belt speed (that may change some day) but at the same time we must change the design of the engine and add a gear reducer to lower belt speed. When we do that we increase torque but make the same hp at a lower rpm as in the Apex and how it pertains to the CV system. Someone said peak torque and hp living at the same rpm is a myth yet our sleds prove its true.

So I am not wrong and have no need to say I am. Torque is king HP is the result, I know that infuriates you but torque is the most easily changed part of the equation in the sled application, hp is the result. You may clutch for max hp but torque decided where that is, if you do not believe that look at the sidewinder engine graph. when torque falls off so does hp. Peak hp is made with a torque band 3,000rpm wide with a difference of about 5 or less ft pds of torque difference. 200 plus hp is made in a wide band of about 600 rpm. Please tell me again how torque is useless.

Also I like the guy who said the electric cars of today start out at zero rpm and hp yet they launch and accelerate to low quarter mile times.

Torque x RPM makes HP, more torque same RPM makes more hp. In a world of turbos in sleds this is more true then ever. I thought you wanted more HP. Its easy add more torque.
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There is no such thing as an engine with torque climbing as it approaches maximum HP, yet that is where ANY machine will be fastest when clutched or geared to.
Even the Harley reference is simply false.
Let's look at an example.
A 2011 HD Street Glide makes maximum torque of 86.6 @ 3400
It makes maximum HP of 68.6 @ 4900
So, over the spread of 1500 RPM, torque fell substantially from 86.6 to under 70, yet HP kept climbing.
What does this mean? It means that this Harley, no matter the weight, and no matter the transmission type, would be faster when the peak HP numbers where targeted for shifting, which also means the 'pull on your arms would be greater'.
I don't know how I, or any one else here can lay the facts out any more clearer, but please lets move on.
Sometimes people tend to focus on the irrelevant, the inconsequential, and the just plain outright-loopy, and your ability to twist the numbers and facts up worse than a pretzel is a prime example of this tendency.
 
74Nitro said:
There is no such thing as an engine with torque climbing as it approaches maximum HP, yet that is where ANY machine will be fastest when clutched or geared to.
Even the Harley reference is simply false.
Let's look at an example.
A 2011 HD Street Glide makes maximum torque of 86.6 @ 3400
It makes maximum HP of 68.6 @ 4900
So, over the spread of 1500 RPM, torque fell substantially from 86.6 to under 70, yet HP kept climbing.
What does this mean? It means that this Harley, no matter the weight, and no matter the transmission type, would be faster when the peak HP numbers where targeted for shifting, which also means the 'pull on your arms would be greater'.
I don't know how I, or any one else here can lay the facts out any more clearer, but please lets move on.
Sometimes people tend to focus on the irrelevant, the inconsequential, and the just plain outright-loopy, and your ability to twist the numbers and facts up worse than a pretzel is a prime example of this tendency.
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It’s useless to argue, I did not even read his entire post. It’s all BS
 
It’s time to LAND THE PLANE concerning the
HP/Torque debate!!!!!!!!!!
As far as fastest 4stroke, the sidewinder is KING.Skidoo is not even in the same league.

The 900ace is very popular north of the border,
Has proven to be GAS and GO with minimal issues.
The 900turbo was only to give skidoo 4st Customer’s another option over the 900na and to pull new riders over.
The drive by wire system is very finicky and absolutely not calibrated right.

NowYAMAHA has the best Drive by wire set up for a snowmobile but doesn’t have the adjust on the fly feature. Why it disappeared after 2016, mind boggling!!!!!!

With Cat’s front end, further enhancements with the slide action, a COMPLETE Overhaul to the sidewinder’s chaincase, bearings, clutching, to SUPPORT THE MOTOR,

A drive by wire NA 4st that is a gas and go with fuel mileage like a ACE and could be 145/150 hp would seriously get people talking.

Can somebody tell me with all the HIGH TECH
SYSTEMS Yamaha has to offer, why they are not KING in the 4st market period.
 
I can't wait for Hurricane to come out with a high torque flash so I can drop the HP and get rid of my high flow exhaust and really bang out some good runs! DOH! I've heard enough of this nonsense. Where's the mute button!
 
cobrajet ltx dx said:
It’s time to LAND THE PLANE concerning the
HP/Torque debate!!!!!!!!!!
As far as fastest 4stroke, the sidewinder is KING.Skidoo is not even in the same league.

The 900ace is very popular north of the border,
Has proven to be GAS and GO with minimal issues.
The 900turbo was only to give skidoo 4st Customer’s another option over the 900na and to pull new riders over.
The drive by wire system is very finicky and absolutely not calibrated right.

NowYAMAHA has the best Drive by wire set up for a snowmobile but doesn’t have the adjust on the fly feature. Why it disappeared after 2016, mind boggling!!!!!!

With Cat’s front end, further enhancements with the slide action, a COMPLETE Overhaul to the sidewinder’s chaincase, bearings, clutching, to SUPPORT THE MOTOR,

A drive by wire NA 4st that is a gas and go with fuel mileage like a ACE and could be 145/150 hp would seriously get people talking.

Can somebody tell me with all the HIGH TECH
SYSTEMS Yamaha has to offer, why they are not KING in the 4st market period.
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Agree my best guess Yamaha is looking for the exit door for snowmobiles. Yamaha engineering is stellar but no budget for R&D reaps nothing. Very little to be excited about from Yamaha just same old same old and the agreement with Textron seems to be wearing thin lately. Make Yamaha Great Again! Lol.
 
whitedust1 said:
Agree my best guess Yamaha is looking for the exit door for snowmobiles. Yamaha engineering is stellar but no budget for R&D reaps nothing. Very little to be excited about from Yamaha just same old same old and the agreement with Textron seems to be wearing thin lately. Make Yamaha Great Again! Lol.
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Yup, volume is too low for new sled sales. Yamaha screwed up by making quality machines in the 2000s. They should have made disposable junk machines like polaris and skidoo.
 
Big_Phil said:
Yup, volume is too low for new sled sales. Yamaha screwed up by making quality machines in the 2000s. They should have made disposable junk machines like polaris and skidoo.
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LMFAO!!!!
You forgot the biggest POS....Arctic Cat
 
ClutchMaster said:
LMFAO!!!!
You forgot the biggest POS....Arctic Cat
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Hahaha, true. But at least Arctic Cat has always had good engines. Just the rest of the sled is a problem. I legit don't know how people have such a hard on for ski-doo, and Polaris makes skidoo looks good they are so crap.
 
Yea the least reliable engine currently is the Ski-Doo 850. Touted in the beginning to be the most reliable 2 stroke ever made, yea sure.....wanna buy a bridge?
 
Big_Phil said:
Hahaha, true. But at least Arctic Cat has always had good engines. Just the rest of the sled is a problem. I legit don't know how people have such a hard on for ski-doo, and Polaris makes skidoo looks good they are so crap.
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This is the problem with the Sidewinder. All cat but the engine. We can't blame all the issues on Cat though. The once best clutch in the industry is now pretty much the worse.
 
ClutchMaster said:
Yea the least reliable engine currently is the Ski-Doo 850. Touted in the beginning to be the most reliable 2 stroke ever made, yea sure.....wanna buy a bridge?
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Lets not talk about 850 reliability issues! Over on DooTalk all the 850 owners are in total denial. The really surprising thing is people in the know are buying them and using the extended warranty as an excuse to justify buying them. Extended warranties don't suddenly fixed ruined trips and weeks of waiting for new engines. I guess the good news is BRP has lots of throw away engines in stock just waiting to be shipped.
 
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