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Real World 1500 Mile Low Down of new Ski Doo XR-S 900 Turbo vs. SideWinder

ClutchMaster said:
Yea everything has its rpm limits. I’ve heard belt efficiently is reduced greatly at at those really high speeds, but many have run belts up around 10k without problems.
That’s fine put a gear reduction on it, they work well.
It’s already engineered!
so I’ll be ordering the new Sidewinder with the apex motor turbocharged!
:drink:We need a new emoji with a spinning turbo wheel!
This beer drinking emoji has liver problems
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Lol. There was a Turbo Vipex for sale around my area last season actually. It’s been done before. I’m sure it’s easy with your welding skills there! Buy a clapped out high mile apex and you get a free engine too.
 

To some up this thread ...
when skidoo actually can produce a 4 stroke that can make the same hp to cc as Yamaha's not so special 998 (N/A or turboed) , we will have something to talk about ...lol
 
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ROCKERDAN said:
NEW Vid....Skip ahead to 7:14....yes its a horrible throttle system period.
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That's the first I've heard of this Dan thanks for posting. :rofl:I'll have to look for it next season and see how bad it is.
 
ROCKERDAN said:
Got it thanks.....I know the tuned 900t we rode with more power made it far too touchy for tight trails. Tuners might be able to make the iTC abit better overall, but it will never feel normal for those who are used to 2s delivery and 4s YAM throttle delivery. Sure you can get used to it, but we shouldn't have to. BRP should go back to drawing board with their 4s too long intake. BRP's problem is they have made their 4s for the touring crowd and keep their 2s sleds for perf crowd. If they designed the intake like YAM they could have a killer 4s turbo, but will never with this design.

900t guys get all bent out of shape when we call this sled out for this shortcoming, which is not just a small issue. There is only one 4s made that is purely aimed at performance feel. Back in 03 Yamaha did their homework to be sure their 4s was gonna perform.

900t is fine for touring on wide open trails, but most still dislike the 'disconnected' feeling between the thumb and engine.
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We aren't the ones who get bent out of shape Dan. When we say it's a non issue to us some guys get all worked up about it and tell us we aren't performance riders or all we do is ride with our wives and wouldn't know a good sled from a bad one.
I really could care less about what anybody thinks about my sleds and what I ride. There are so many great choices out there and there is no reason to buy something that doesn't fit your needs.

You and I can both agree the Sidewinder is an awesome sled yet neither one of us still own them. Hmmmm. What we don't agree on is what we now own. I will stick with my 900t knowing it will run awesome all the time and when I'm touring Quebec (with my wife) I won't have to worry about engine issues, fuel quality or having to carry six gallons of oil with me. As far as what you now have tic tic tic tic...….. :rofl:

All I know is right now I'm daily driving my Corvette golfing in tournaments and visiting the grand kids. Retirement is awesome and I could care less about the throttle on my sled. :Rockon:
 
If don't notice how bad the throttle delay is on the skidoo when u switch back forth on the trail with a sidewinder, I would say the person could drive a corvette or a civic around town and not know the difference....
 
You know the 1200 has the same long intake tract and had no issue with throttle lag when going on or off the throttle, it was INSTANT with the cable system. It wasn't perfect however in the fact if you like to blip the throttle down low it would seem laggy if you did that because of the idle control valve. None the less, the long intake track had ZERO effect on throttle lag. It had in fact intense throttle response!

The problem came later when they went to the ITC throttle on the 1200. Thats when I noticed some lag just due to no cable on the butterfly. Fast forward to the 900T and you'll find not only lag on the throttle, but lag when coming off the throttle as well. My buddy complained about his right from the get go. I rode it and sure enough, when you want to come off the throttle to load the skis in a corner like you'd normally ride a 1200 or SideWinder, the 900T just keeps going for a second before letting off. It felt very disconnected to me. Another big thing I noticed was how poor the ride was on the 900T's front end. That was my bigger complaint was the front end compared to the Winder. My Winder rides soooooo much better than the 900T.

I really don't feel the love for the 900T even on DooTalk, and I have buddy's that has already sold one just not liking it as much as he liked the 1200. People raved about their 1200's, but I don't see that at all for the 900T, literally only a handful rave about them on DooTalk. To me that says something. They don't seem too special to me judging by the lack of love. That said, when they bump the power up, put some good shock on it, fix the twitchy, rough riding and harder steering front end, I'll try one. Until then, I'll make due with the Winder.
 
XP123 said:
That's the first I've heard of this Dan thanks for posting. :rofl:I'll have to look for it next season and see how bad it is.
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Guy didn’t know the Enduro had air ride suspension or heated seat. Lol. Then rags throttle lag and never says what mode the 900t is in as he flips throttle which seems like eco mode to me which isn’t supposed to be super responsive. Buddy rode my Enduro has 2 Apex xtx I switched to sport mode and he loved the 900t put a huge smile on his face. Reliability report on the Enduro in video was super good no issues in 4000 miles and a prototype. Seems like a quality sled to me.
 
whitedust1 said:
Guy didn’t know the Enduro had air ride suspension or heated seat. Lol. Then rags throttle lag and never says what mode the 900t is in as he flips throttle which seems like eco mode to me which isn’t supposed to be super responsive. Buddy rode my Enduro has 2 Apex xtx I switched to sport mode and he loved the 900t put a huge smile on his face. Reliability report on the Enduro in video was super good no issues in 4000 miles and a prototype. Seems like a quality sled to me.
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It’s just plain stupid to have electronic throttle control on a snowmobile. I can see it in a vehicle that needs traction control, cruise control and pre-crash control, all of which snowmobiles don’t have.
It’s a was bad decision to even use it.
M2C
 
ClutchMaster said:
It’s just plain stupid to have electronic throttle control on a snowmobile. I can see it in a vehicle that needs traction control, cruise control and pre-crash control, all of which snowmobiles don’t have.
It’s a was bad decision to even use it.
M2C
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They use the electronic throttle because the 900 ACE engine was made for the Seadoo Spark. They have a 60hp spart and a 90hp HO model, identical engines except the base 60hp limits the throttle to 7000rpms and the HO 90hp lets it rev to 8000rpms.

I used to have a couple of Sparks and I thought they were pretty responsive actually. I liked the throttle on them in sport mode, eco was terrible and had that disconnected feeling. Ill have to ride a 900T one day and see the difference, all my riding buddies like fast sleds tho so I dont know anybody who has one.
 
ClutchMaster said:
All I can say is WOW!
:drink:
Your original post was “torque pulls your arms out”
We have tried over and over to explain the true relationship of torque and rpm. It’s not that hard too understand you need both torque and rpm, they share an equal roll in the horsepower equation. (It’s proven science)

You stated earlier that “Torque is King”
Well you were wrong.

Horsepower is king, and you’ve been changing you stance, contradicting yourself and causing confusion.

A real man will admit when he is wrong,
Torque is really nothing without rpm.
Horsepower is the combination of both.....
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My original post was torque pulls your arms out. It was in reference to a Harley which was talked about, not a sled. A Harley relies on torque to get a very Large bike moving and it does it hard off the line, it will pull your arms out. You say torque is nothing without rpm yet rpm is nothing without torque. Torque and rpm are measurable parts of the equation hp is the result.

Now back over to the sled CV trans side. You take issue with the statement that increase torque at any rpm and hp increases, yet that is exactly what happens with boost and NOS. RPM remains the same but torque increases so hp increases with it. With our sleds our peak torque is made close to peak HP so torque not being important kinda goes out the window as well for that reason.

Now you jump back to turbines and a 10ft/pd 800hp motor spinning at 400,000 rpm if that is even possible and yep it has an application and the hp was indeed mathematically calculated by torque and RPM. But not practical for use in sleds as you suggested.

I am not wrong and I fully understand torque and RPM and their relation ship with HP. Its all about application and you say I caused confusion yet you went from Harley's to Sleds to Helicopter engines. Three different applications each one needs a different motor. So Torque and RPM have a different job in each one and the end result called HP plays a different role in each one as does torque.

You said less torque more hp wins the race yet that is not accurate and has been proven wrong over and over. The sidewinder makes a ton of torque from 6,000 to 9,000 rpm if you increases boost torque rises and so does HP yet RPM stays relatively the same. Now we can increase rpm but in sleds RPM is limited to belt speed (that may change some day) but at the same time we must change the design of the engine and add a gear reducer to lower belt speed. When we do that we increase torque but make the same hp at a lower rpm as in the Apex and how it pertains to the CV system. Someone said peak torque and hp living at the same rpm is a myth yet our sleds prove its true.

So I am not wrong and have no need to say I am. Torque is king HP is the result, I know that infuriates you but torque is the most easily changed part of the equation in the sled application, hp is the result. You may clutch for max hp but torque decided where that is, if you do not believe that look at the sidewinder engine graph. when torque falls off so does hp. Peak hp is made with a torque band 3,000rpm wide with a difference of about 5 or less ft pds of torque difference. 200 plus hp is made in a wide band of about 600 rpm. Please tell me again how torque is useless.

Also I like the guy who said the electric cars of today start out at zero rpm and hp yet they launch and accelerate to low quarter mile times.

Torque x RPM makes HP, more torque same RPM makes more hp. In a world of turbos in sleds this is more true then ever. I thought you wanted more HP. Its easy add more torque.
 
Oh no not again! LOL
Energizer Bunny^^^^^^
 
when you clutch to the torque, quicker ET, pulls harder.
 
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