kinger
VIP Member
Hey guys,
Looking at buying a apex that was submerged. It doesn't start because of some electrical issue. Wondering if you think its worth it. Its uber cheap but if I have to replace CDI, wiring harness, etc. It coudl add up fast. What do you think?
Looking at buying a apex that was submerged. It doesn't start because of some electrical issue. Wondering if you think its worth it. Its uber cheap but if I have to replace CDI, wiring harness, etc. It coudl add up fast. What do you think?
MXD
Pro
Run away. Water causes problems that can be impossible to find when you're dealing with the amount of electronics on a new sled. Its not like the old days.....flip....flush....fire it up
LazyBastard
TY 4 Stroke God
If it went down in FRESH water, *consider* it. If SALT water, leave it.
Here's the consideration; If the engine was RUNNING when it went down, it could be busted up real bad inside. If the engine was cranked over before all the water was drained from it, it could be busted up inside. If it went down OFF, then buy it. The CDI is sealed, water won't get in. If there's an electrical problem, its probably a switch (ignition, kill, tors), fuse, etc.
How much? I might consider it myself.
Here's the consideration; If the engine was RUNNING when it went down, it could be busted up real bad inside. If the engine was cranked over before all the water was drained from it, it could be busted up inside. If it went down OFF, then buy it. The CDI is sealed, water won't get in. If there's an electrical problem, its probably a switch (ignition, kill, tors), fuse, etc.
How much? I might consider it myself.
Soldier'spapa
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Develop a worst case scenerio. Plan on all the electrical components. Price them out. Factor in if you will be paying labor for someone else to perform the repairs. As LB said the engine could have damage depending on wheather it injested water and tried to compress it.
Then after weighing out the worst case send me a PM. My 07 Attak struck a deer last week with 180 miles, or so, on it. I think my insurance company will be totalling the sled. If they do, I''l own it and likely be parting it out.
Then after weighing out the worst case send me a PM. My 07 Attak struck a deer last week with 180 miles, or so, on it. I think my insurance company will be totalling the sled. If they do, I''l own it and likely be parting it out.
kinger
VIP Member
I can't see the sled to see just how bad it is, the pictures it looks mint. Only minor damage to the front bumper and the carbide that apparently stuck into the ice and probably caused the demise of how he didn't make it over the pond. My guess is that most of the relays and engine electronics will need be replaced and if I can get them from a part out like Soldier'spapa that is what I would want to do.
I don't know if the motor was running when it went down. I do know it turns over but will not start and hasn't been running since it sank about 2 months ago. I think it was under for less then 12 hrs.
I don't know if the motor was running when it went down. I do know it turns over but will not start and hasn't been running since it sank about 2 months ago. I think it was under for less then 12 hrs.
MyOutdoors
VIP Member
Sleds submerged are best left under(water)until you are ready to start repairing once out of the water. Once out of the water, everything starts to oxidize and rust faster. Free it would be for me, but anything more is going to hurt your wallet and probably be a constant headache. Without knowing if it was running while it went in and sucked in some water or was tried to start, your taking a big chance.. Buddy of mine way back when sunk in brand new toyota, it stalled and before we could tell him to wait and let us pull him out he tried to start it...starter alone bent the crank...cannot compress water! $3k for his new motor.
06RTXTASY
Pro
Your worst case is like others said. If it was running it most likely hydro locked the engine. If you have never seen the catastrophic damage that can cause then be prepared when you see it. WORST case when this happens is the connecting rod can break and blow a hole in the block thats un-repairable. I have seen this happen on Honda's a million times and some of the times if at lower RPM's the engine gets the oil drained and it will crank right up.
As far as electronics I think the biggest thing is the ECU or whatever the apex has. The relays and wiring harnesses if not left for too long should be fine. They are all sealed so the connectors are the worry there. I would think about it if it were 2-3k Depending on visible damage.
You are going about it the right way in trying to get some education on it first rather than buying and finding out after the fact it will cost you 4-5k to fix and you still don't have a new sled. Is the sled nearby to you? I would try to get a visual inspection on the sled.
At any rate I am curiouse to see what the true damage is.
As far as electronics I think the biggest thing is the ECU or whatever the apex has. The relays and wiring harnesses if not left for too long should be fine. They are all sealed so the connectors are the worry there. I would think about it if it were 2-3k Depending on visible damage.
You are going about it the right way in trying to get some education on it first rather than buying and finding out after the fact it will cost you 4-5k to fix and you still don't have a new sled. Is the sled nearby to you? I would try to get a visual inspection on the sled.
At any rate I am curiouse to see what the true damage is.
JJWickenhauser
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Buy it or not
I'd score that baby up if and only if, I could make my money back parting it out. That would be a worst case thing in my opinion, but I enjoy taking things apart that I don't haev to put back together.
I'd score that baby up if and only if, I could make my money back parting it out. That would be a worst case thing in my opinion, but I enjoy taking things apart that I don't haev to put back together.
ReX
TY 4 Stroke God
If the motor went under and hasn't been running since - and that was 2 months ago - you can guarantee there will be serious engine damage by now.
Corroded crank and rings, leading to spun bearings and low compression are almost guaranteed at this point. If you get it running it might run OK initially, but there's a good chance it won't for long.
Sounds to me like a full tear down is required and I wouldn't bother trying to get it running before doing that.
On top of that there's all of the typical problems like waterlogged seat and mildew plus any electrical gremlins like corroded connectors, etc.
If a sled/truck/car/ATV/etc. sinks in fresh water while the engine is off or idling and when it's pulled out its looked after right - right away plugs are pulled, water pumped out, fluids drained and replaced, and its started up quickly - usually the drive train is fine. If it sits its bad news.
To estimate what the sled is worth to you I would assume a major rebuild is required, including crank work, new drive train bearings (chaincase, jackshaft, drive shaft, & idlers) and I'd also factor in a new seat.
Corroded crank and rings, leading to spun bearings and low compression are almost guaranteed at this point. If you get it running it might run OK initially, but there's a good chance it won't for long.
Sounds to me like a full tear down is required and I wouldn't bother trying to get it running before doing that.
On top of that there's all of the typical problems like waterlogged seat and mildew plus any electrical gremlins like corroded connectors, etc.
If a sled/truck/car/ATV/etc. sinks in fresh water while the engine is off or idling and when it's pulled out its looked after right - right away plugs are pulled, water pumped out, fluids drained and replaced, and its started up quickly - usually the drive train is fine. If it sits its bad news.
To estimate what the sled is worth to you I would assume a major rebuild is required, including crank work, new drive train bearings (chaincase, jackshaft, drive shaft, & idlers) and I'd also factor in a new seat.
SledFreak
TY 4 Stroke God
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2 months without being started.... You should just give your money to charity... It would be for a better cause. If you don't start it and change the oil as soon as you pull it from the water, the damage is done. You need to change it about 4 times to get all the water out and that is just letting the motor run at an idle for 10-20 minutes at a time.
kinger
VIP Member
Aside from the rod and main bearing what else would rust that would be real expensive to fix? I was toying with dropping in different pistons anyway if I got it. It wouldn't be a stock one when I was done anyway.
deerlodge
Pro
I think I was looking at the same sled also, blue with a busted carbibe and no windshield?
sobfrogg
TY 4 Stroke Guru
If the price were right I would get it. If it turns out to be more work than you are willing to do, you could always part it out.
just my .02
just my .02
Arctic Express
Extreme
Like who would be interested in buy parts from a submarine sled? Seems like someone would be getting stiffed on the deal! 
ReX
TY 4 Stroke God
kinger said:
Who knows - anything that can corrode could be ruined. That includes pretty much everything from cams, valve shanks, valve seat and sealing surfaces, timing chain, drive chain, drive gears, clutch components, fuel injection components, electronics, etc. Possibly even the cylinders. Chances are not everything will be damaged, but you can bet a lot will be.
It's too bad the owner didn't get it running right away. I know guys who have completely sunk their off-road trucks several times (even the roof has been under the water and some took hours to get out). By looking after everything right away they've had no problems whatsoever (draining all fluids includes drilling holes in the automatic tranny's torque converter to drain out all fluid and then welding them closed again). The other thing I've learnt from watching many trucks go under is I have not seen a rod get bent as long as the motor was idling (or off) when it went under and the plugs were pulled and intake cleaned out for the first crank. If they suck water while on the throttle its bad news though.
On the other hand, in the mid 70's, my fathers boat sank and he didn't know what to do so he just stored the motor at our house. 2 years later when I was about 10 I convinced him to let me pull it apart to see if I could fix the motor. It took a sledge hammer to remove the pistons and everything from pistons, rings, bearings, cylinders, etc. had to be replaced or resurfaced. Even the flywheel had corroded enough that it rubbed the coils (I had to sand the magnet surfaces down a little). The carburetor corroded so much from the water inside that I had to drill out the ports again. I eventually got it working and that motor ran strong for many thousands of hours - until last year when it blew a head gasket. It was a lot of work and a lot of replaced parts though (for a 10 year old it was a lot of fun too - I'd like to do a project like that with my children).
