Rider fatigue

[Augie]

Hey Guys, Still riding my VMAX XTC 700. Been a great sled but i'm looking to upgrade and i'm leaning towards an Apex. One of my major issues is being in my 50's a 75 - 100 mile day beats me up (very sore by Monday) by riding aggressive keeping up with the younger riders. Speaking with friends they all say the newer machines are a lot friendlier on their bodies and im not sure an Apex will fit the bill.
Not necessarily looking for a "Big Bump" suspension but better than what im used too. Is the Apex considered "Rider forward"?

 

[vodoo child]

Apex is not a rider foward sled IMO. If your not a Yamaha purist, take a look at the 15 and up Viper with a 137" track. Just yesterday saw a 16 Viper ltx/le leftover for sale on sledtrader out your way at a dealer for 10K.

 

[bleedyamaha]

I went from a 2002 viper to a 2014 Viper. I can tell you after the first 200 mile ride I felt as good as when I started. Caution though your neck and arms will be longer so don't step on your hands or hit your head in the doorway when your done. You will be ready for day 2

 

[clarkman]

I had a 96 vmax-4. 120-150 miles and I was really hurting. Then went to an 07 attak gt. Had a few rides over 250 miles with no back ache at all. You will be very impressed with how far the rear suspensions have come.

 

[benjamingvsu]

Some of it is going to depend on what hurts and why. My first hand experience is with my 07 phazer and my current ride - 2014 Viper.

Arms/shoulders sore from steering - maybe the Apex with electric steering would help. Back sore, probably better on the Viper. Knees sore, probably a toss up but if you're real big, sometimes can be easier to stretch back on Apex I would think. Good news is any of these newer sleds have better opportunity to set them up. I liked the geometry of my Phazer. Took a tape measure and set my Viper handlebars in the exact same distance to footboard and fore/aft to line up to my knee in exact same spot as Phazer. Several inches different from when I picked the sled up from dealer and took me 5 minutes with nothing to buy.

Either way, be sure to get the right model. If you are looking for a plush ride don't buy the RTX Viper for example.

Try to get some seat time - I rented Doos ( Rev XP 600 etec) and Yamahas ( Venture, Phazer, Vector) before purchasing the Phazer.

 

[Teamblue4]

We're in our 50's also And we ride 100 plus miles a day on our Apex's 3 or 4 days every weekend during the season.

 

[SteelerJim]

We're in our 50's also And we ride 100 plus miles a day on our Apex's 3 or 4 days every weekend during the season.

WOW! I wish my weekends were 3 or 4 days long

 

[Dara]

I'm 60 now and my 2012 Vector LTX does me just fine. 150 miles every Saturday and 50 or so Sunday myself, and then a 900 mile week when we rent a cabin every year
11,000 miles on it in 4 seasons

 

[RTX]

The apex is not what i would consider a rider forward sled.
If it is your back that is bothering you, i feel the apex seating position is a little low (i have an 06 rtx)
The apex is absolutely top notch for flat groomed trails. When set up properly it handles excellent and takes the small bumps well.
When the trails get beat up the apex can be a real handfull. The low seating position and lack of a (big bump) suspension can and will wear you out.

If your trails are always groomed and never get too badly beat up, just adding a few inches of seat foam will make a big difference in the apex seating position and makes for a much more comfortable ride, and transition to standing.
If this is the case, the apex would be an awsome choice

I would consider the viper and sidewinder rider forward.
If you are looking for (engine) performance comparable to the apex you will need the sidewinder or a turbo viper,

 

[DGZRT]

Having road with guy that owns a XTC - 700. And having road it for 20 miles of the trip. The Apex or Vector is worlds ahead in most departments. If your trails are constantly Beat to a pulp then the Viper is the best bet. If you have nice trails then the Apex is the most fun and can be setup to handle great. On most Yamaha's you do have to invest in getting your shocks revalved but That's only a few hundred dollars and doesn't need to be done right away. Different ski like SLT or Curves work great or Snowtrackers on the factory ski's work excellent. Coming off the XTC ( which I still own a 600 & 500 deluxe ) you will think the sled is rider forward. You can't beat a Yamaha for dependability and 18 MPG is much better than 10/12 Enjoy !

 

[OVR4D]

My 2 cents on rider positioning for comfort. Any time you can get your hips higher than your knees you're going to reduce the stress on your legs and back. A higher seat height accomplishes this, and it makes transitioning from sitting to standing much easier, but beware that it also raises your center of gravity and so requires a bit more active-rider input to reduce inside ski lift when cornering. To me, the purpose of rider forward positioning is to place the rider closer to the sleds fulcrum (think of a teeter-totter) so that when riding aggressively over rough terrain, the rider remains relatively still as the sled moves underneath, assuming the rider is in a standing or posting position. So rider forward sleds should also reduce fatigue when conditions are rough, but a sled's suspension set up is just as important. Bottom line, rider forward sleds can and do reduce rider fatigue, but they also tend to have a higher COG and therefore require greater rider input, especially if you ride aggressively.

 

[maim]

compared to the rx sleds, the apex is more rider forward but you can still lay back and cruise on it. any used apex mono will be a big improvement over the old proaction sleds. if going new pick whitchever sled is the most comfortable seating wise for you. suspension can always be dialed in afterwards. they all ride pretty well nowadays when set right.

 

[kinger]

I would say the Apex is a bridge between a lay down sled of old and Doo rider forward design. On my GT I had to swap the seats to the firmer Mountain seat vs the soft GT seat, now it keeps my hips higher than my knees. It also lets you sit with your knee at a 90 degree bend vs a rider forward where you knees are bent at like a 60 degree angle which I personally don't care for. The beauty of the apex in my mind is where you sit. Slide forward and hump the gas tank it will handle and turn like a rider forward. Move back stretch your knees out and relax and its more comfortable then a rider forward sled. The seat makes all the difference, I wanted soft cushy thinking that was the answer and that is false you want firm and supportive and not let you sink down and turn it into a lay down sled. I weigh 225lbs and maybe depress the seat 1" tops when I sit on it. I was flabbergasted at the difference and how much more comfortable the the 'firm' seat was. Now if your a 120lb lady then it would probably be to firm.

Like all said the suspensions are nice, durability depends on maintenance but they do ride night and day better than what your used to!

 

[THKSNOW]

Here's my 2 cents... well maybe 3 cents. I rode a 2002 Viper for about 11,000 miles, upgraded to a 2006 Attak (same as a 136" Apex) put on almost 22,000 over 9 seasons. Found a good deal on this sled before last season. Room for 2, but mostly I ride alone; the back rest moves up for the driver to use. Plenty of power and power steering is awesome. Swapped sleds last winter and rode buddy's 06 Attak for 30 minutes; that was enough for me. My 2013 Venture GT is the Goldwing of snow, nice wide seat and great ride on a 144" track. Quite a few 200-250 mile days of aggressive riding last season and no issues the next morning. If you're looking for a trail cruiser that will easily keep up with most, it's one to consider. I wish I had made the switch 5 years ago.

 

[Augie]

Thanks for your replies Guys, The seat height that a few of you mentioned makes sense! my major issue is my thighs burn after riding and i believe its because i use my legs to absorb the bumps at that low angle seated position or like Kinger said "your hips are higher than your knees"(on the Apex) will help alot. Ive already convinced myself i wanted an Apex and all your input just helps me move forward sooner than later.