Yellowknife
TY 4 Stroke Master
I will have to find out more about the secondary. I don't think that happened from the oil spill.
I am going to have them put the sea level clutching into the primary while they are waiting for the secondary parts.
I am going to have them put the sea level clutching into the primary while they are waiting for the secondary parts.
bush wacker
Extreme
yellowknife, do you think if i removed the rear plastics ( the ones covering the rear exhaust) the heat would be able to disperse better and not melt your seat
A week ago when I did my oil change, I noticed I was missing the the rubber o-ring off the filter when I removed it. It just stuck to the motor.
After watching your video, I figured the damage from your secondary was caused by oil getting onto the belt. i've not watched the video again but it would be evident if that is the case.
After watching your video, I figured the damage from your secondary was caused by oil getting onto the belt. i've not watched the video again but it would be evident if that is the case.
Yellowknife
TY 4 Stroke Master
bush wacker, I don't think removing the side plastics will do much, and I don't think you will melt your seat with the tunnel covered. There is still enough of a gap between the surface of the tunnel and the muffler itself to allow good airflow. While covering the tunnel does help with the mess, you still get a huge mess if you are in powder because now the snow sits on top of the cover you just installed and turns into slush and ice depending on the outside temperature. I don't think you have anything to worry about covering the hole, a lot of people have done it. I'd recommend doing it with nuts and bolts so you can easily remove it if you find you aren't comfortable with the modification.
AKrider, I don't believe the damage from the secondary is caused by the oil getting onto the belt because I moved only a matter of meters when the oil decided to spill. It all happened quickly and I stopped right away as soon as it started to slip. That kind of secondary cracking must have been done over the course of the 3000 km's i've ridden.
I'm heading down now to talk with the mechanic.
AKrider, I don't believe the damage from the secondary is caused by the oil getting onto the belt because I moved only a matter of meters when the oil decided to spill. It all happened quickly and I stopped right away as soon as it started to slip. That kind of secondary cracking must have been done over the course of the 3000 km's i've ridden.
I'm heading down now to talk with the mechanic.
I'm curious to what your dealer/yamaha are saying about it
NB-NYTRO
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
You got be carefull with those damn oil filters. I got into a habit now of checking the oil filter i'm taking off to make sure the seal is still on it. Don't forget to put a little oil on the seal of the new filter.
Yellowknife
TY 4 Stroke Master
Mark, I visited with the service manager and the mechanic working on my sled. It was a good talk.
First they showed me the filter I installed and the extra o-ring that was between it and the engine block. It was mangled to death. It was kinda funny looking at it. I'm definitely at fault even though I swear I was more careful.
How'd all that oil get on the primary? Well it went everywhere. As the filter started to leak, it sprayed in all directions. They actually added oil when they put the unit on the stand, and ran it with the panels off to see where it was coming from...
Imagine putting your thumb part-way over a garden hose. Now imagine that was oil coming out of it. That's what happened here, so it got all over everything, and I mean everything.
They cleaned it up and wiped it down, put a new filter on and topped her up.
But there's a brighter side to this story in my opinion. The service manager and the mechanic couldn't believe how much snow was inside the engine compartment when the took the cowlings off.
It was great to see their reaction, because they think it is totally rediculous that a mountain sled lets so much snow into its engine compartment, and I fully agree. I've been complaining about this on most sleds i've ridden for years. It's time for the engineers to take a look and start solving this problem.
Take a look they will - my dealer took many pictures and fired them off to Yamaha.
I'm stoked that my dealer backs me up so much and is willing to take the time to give Yamaha this type of feedback. I've seen too many times where a bandaid is put on the problem and the manufacturer doesn't even hear about it. If we want better sleds, we need better communication. Thumbs up to Force One for doing all of this. I'm throwing them a pizza party on Friday as a gesture of thanks. (not to mention for the speedy service)
I'm always posting on here for you guys to see the issues, and they're usually more evident with first year sleds. The fact is, the Nytro's don't block out snow any better than the Phazer's did last year. I've got an update kit on my Phazer for the snow intake issue, but have yet to test it to see how well it is really working. That testing will begin tonight.
I also have to give a big thumbs up to Chris Reid at Yamaha Canada for being a great listener. It's not about freaking out at the manufacturers and being pissed off cause your sled isn't working the way you want, it is about discussion, open communication and feedback so that you can be effective as a consumer in helping the manufacturer build a better product. If everyone who currently freaks out (like I used to) took an open discussion approach, you'd be surprised where you'd get....sure, not all dealers are going to be willing to work with you, but if you want to put the effort into improving the product, you have to go the extra mile, and if you do that, you'll be surprised what you get back in return. Appreciation, better products, and respect.
So that leads me to the Secondary issue...
The problem with the splitting secondary isn't from the oil blow out, it's from the past 3000 km's. With the amount of snow getting into the engine compartment, the belt is slipping. I can't tell while riding, otherwise I would have flagged it, but they showed me the sign's right on the clutches that indicate slipping and friction, and it's safe to say it is happening because of powder snow injestion.
Clearly a fix is needed from Yamaha for cold weather riders who are in deep snow. These machines will not likely see many of these issues in the mountains where you are riding in sweaters and near freezing temps, so it's not like the problems I experience up here are going to be common.
One thing for sure though, if something isn't done, in another 3000 km's the sled will be back in for warranty on a new secondary clutch.
Even with all of my pre-filter and weather stripping and even tape and hot glue blocking every hole I could find, the designs to keep snow injestion to a minimum simply have to be improved, it's as simple as that.
First they showed me the filter I installed and the extra o-ring that was between it and the engine block. It was mangled to death. It was kinda funny looking at it. I'm definitely at fault even though I swear I was more careful.
How'd all that oil get on the primary? Well it went everywhere. As the filter started to leak, it sprayed in all directions. They actually added oil when they put the unit on the stand, and ran it with the panels off to see where it was coming from...
Imagine putting your thumb part-way over a garden hose. Now imagine that was oil coming out of it. That's what happened here, so it got all over everything, and I mean everything.
They cleaned it up and wiped it down, put a new filter on and topped her up.
But there's a brighter side to this story in my opinion. The service manager and the mechanic couldn't believe how much snow was inside the engine compartment when the took the cowlings off.
It was great to see their reaction, because they think it is totally rediculous that a mountain sled lets so much snow into its engine compartment, and I fully agree. I've been complaining about this on most sleds i've ridden for years. It's time for the engineers to take a look and start solving this problem.
Take a look they will - my dealer took many pictures and fired them off to Yamaha.
I'm stoked that my dealer backs me up so much and is willing to take the time to give Yamaha this type of feedback. I've seen too many times where a bandaid is put on the problem and the manufacturer doesn't even hear about it. If we want better sleds, we need better communication. Thumbs up to Force One for doing all of this. I'm throwing them a pizza party on Friday as a gesture of thanks. (not to mention for the speedy service)
I'm always posting on here for you guys to see the issues, and they're usually more evident with first year sleds. The fact is, the Nytro's don't block out snow any better than the Phazer's did last year. I've got an update kit on my Phazer for the snow intake issue, but have yet to test it to see how well it is really working. That testing will begin tonight.
I also have to give a big thumbs up to Chris Reid at Yamaha Canada for being a great listener. It's not about freaking out at the manufacturers and being pissed off cause your sled isn't working the way you want, it is about discussion, open communication and feedback so that you can be effective as a consumer in helping the manufacturer build a better product. If everyone who currently freaks out (like I used to) took an open discussion approach, you'd be surprised where you'd get....sure, not all dealers are going to be willing to work with you, but if you want to put the effort into improving the product, you have to go the extra mile, and if you do that, you'll be surprised what you get back in return. Appreciation, better products, and respect.
So that leads me to the Secondary issue...
The problem with the splitting secondary isn't from the oil blow out, it's from the past 3000 km's. With the amount of snow getting into the engine compartment, the belt is slipping. I can't tell while riding, otherwise I would have flagged it, but they showed me the sign's right on the clutches that indicate slipping and friction, and it's safe to say it is happening because of powder snow injestion.
Clearly a fix is needed from Yamaha for cold weather riders who are in deep snow. These machines will not likely see many of these issues in the mountains where you are riding in sweaters and near freezing temps, so it's not like the problems I experience up here are going to be common.
One thing for sure though, if something isn't done, in another 3000 km's the sled will be back in for warranty on a new secondary clutch.
Even with all of my pre-filter and weather stripping and even tape and hot glue blocking every hole I could find, the designs to keep snow injestion to a minimum simply have to be improved, it's as simple as that.
papi
Newbie
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2008
- Messages
- 12
any news on when you will get a new secondary and sea level clutching put in?? I'm happy that it is not more serious.
Yellowknife
TY 4 Stroke Master
Update:
Yamaha has authorized the replacement clutch for now under warranty but have requested the stock clutch and the belt back to determine if the clutch failure was due to oil on the belt. The belt is saturated with oil…so I am unsure on what their decision will be at this point.
The Tour Buddy I was given for testing is making news. Apparently there is concern from Yamaha engineering (i've yet to confirm this) that it will stress the frame too much and cause it to kink.
I was in touch with Chris B. at Tour Buddy this morning and I gave him some feedback on the unit.
Yamaha may just be covering themselves against warranty claims for bent rear ends if people are loading up too much stuff back there and riding it beyond it's intended design.
Force One is going to verify the rear tunnel's condition at which point i'll report back. I believe it is as solid as a rock. We don't have groomed trails, but I also don't abuse it either. Keep in mind i've also put an additional 25 litres (6.6 U.S. Gallons) of fuel back there on top of the Tour Buddy's fuel amount (13 litres/3.43 USG) and haven't had a problem. I stand by the Nytro being able to handle the weight if the sled is not being dropped off of buildings, and the Tour Buddy itself is an excellent design.
Yamaha has authorized the replacement clutch for now under warranty but have requested the stock clutch and the belt back to determine if the clutch failure was due to oil on the belt. The belt is saturated with oil…so I am unsure on what their decision will be at this point.
The Tour Buddy I was given for testing is making news. Apparently there is concern from Yamaha engineering (i've yet to confirm this) that it will stress the frame too much and cause it to kink.
I was in touch with Chris B. at Tour Buddy this morning and I gave him some feedback on the unit.
Yamaha may just be covering themselves against warranty claims for bent rear ends if people are loading up too much stuff back there and riding it beyond it's intended design.
Force One is going to verify the rear tunnel's condition at which point i'll report back. I believe it is as solid as a rock. We don't have groomed trails, but I also don't abuse it either. Keep in mind i've also put an additional 25 litres (6.6 U.S. Gallons) of fuel back there on top of the Tour Buddy's fuel amount (13 litres/3.43 USG) and haven't had a problem. I stand by the Nytro being able to handle the weight if the sled is not being dropped off of buildings, and the Tour Buddy itself is an excellent design.
KINS
Pro
I just installed the tour buddy on my sled. I weighed it before installation and I think it was around 4.5 pounds. Since the tour buddy drains first it will be less of a strain over time than a rack with a can of gas.
Yamaha does make a rack for the MTX so I assume they feel the sled can support a certain amount of additional weight.
Yamaha does make a rack for the MTX so I assume they feel the sled can support a certain amount of additional weight.
bush wacker
Extreme
yellowknife, i was just wondering what gauge of alluminum you used to cover the hole on the phazer
Yellowknife
TY 4 Stroke Master
KINS - the rack for the MTX has been pulled off the shelves from fear of consumers loading it up too much and bending the tunnel. Those who got them when they did should count themselves lucky, but sledsolutions still has things like this that are being pulled from the shelves by Yamaha.
bush wacker, I went to Canadian Tire and purchased the thinnest, cheapest sheet I could find.
Rides and Updates:
Well, the Nytro is still in the shop. I threw a pizza party for the gang at Force One on Friday and it was much appreciated. I’m glad I could help, everyone had many thanks. While I was there for lunch with them, my new secondary parts showed up. What timing! I am hopeful the sled will be ready Monday. At that point, it will be an even swap, Nytro for Phazer.
The Phazer is going in for a decompression update kit for cold weather starting. I’ve been waiting forever for this so I’m hoping the parts are in now.
Remember the snow elimination kit they installed under warranty this fall?
It is a kit that is supposed to block snow from entering the engine area around the ‘A Frame Protector’. Well, it doesn’t work.
Tuesday Nate and I went riding in some nice powder, it was about –20 C (-4 F) and we were in the snow for an hour or so.
Today, it was –35 C (-31 F) and we were powder riding for a few hours. Are we nuts riding at that temp? Maybe, but it’s what we do. (And the engineers who test prototypes for cold weather issues should do the same!) It looks like it is going to be this cold for at least a week, and nobody wants to stop riding just cause of the temperature!
Needless to say, today was a great day of testing for Yamaha’s update kit for the snow intake issue on the Phazer, and I can confirm that the kit failed with flying colours. I got so much snow inside the engine compartment that my steering boots blew out again. No bent tie rods though, which is good. Looks like the boys will have to silicone the front end up again to seal the snow out.
But that isn’t the only problem associated with snow. Remember last year when so much ice build-up between the skid plate and the belly pan forced the skid plate right through the bolts that were holding it on?
I reinforced it with larger washers, and even those pushed right through the skid plate. I have more than 6 inches of solid ice between the skid plate and the belly pan. My Phazer is a low rider, the skid plate is almost dragging on the snow while riding on hard packed trail. It is an issue, and I don’t know if it is an issue on the Nytro’s or not, but I am waiting for my floatation plate to arrive and I will find out. At this point with the Phazer, it isn’t even worth having the skid plate on there. It causes me to get hung up and stuck in deep snow more than it does anything else. Not impressed with it.
On another note with the Phazer, at one point it sounded like it was running on one piston, and it gave me an 81 error code (voltage issue to the hand warmers) which has nothing to do with the motor’s performance right? I’m wondering if snow got into a connector that it shouldn’t have and caused some temporary malfunction.
Since using dielectric grease on all the connectors for the Nytro, I haven’t had a problem with error codes again, although it needs more cold weather testing to confirm that the dielectric grease was the fix (as suggested by Yamaha Canada)
While the Phazer is in for the decompression update, it will also receive new plastic side panels next to the muffler, a bump stop kit installation, and an exhaust turnout installation. And maybe they can take some pictures of the snowy intake disaster for Yamaha, both the steering area and the skid plate issue.
I am also going to have the clutch sea-leveled on the Phazer (finally lol) Gearing may be changed later but I’ll do that part.
The Nytro is coming from the shop with sea level clutching in it now, but gearing will remain stock until I test the differences in just the clutching.
So, what kind of rigorous testing did we put the sleds through today?
It was myself, Nate and Ray. Enjoy the pics!!
Cheers,
YK
My Favourite!! Thanks For Taking Awesome Pics Nate!
At first I was underestimating, or overestimating? The capability of the Phazer MTX vs. the Nytro MTX. The Nytro kicks its rear end in deep snow capability, but the Phazer is easier to carve, significantly easier…so while both are in the FX Chassis, nothing can take away the ease of carving that the Phazer offers. But the ice buildup still sucks!
bush wacker, I went to Canadian Tire and purchased the thinnest, cheapest sheet I could find.
Rides and Updates:
Well, the Nytro is still in the shop. I threw a pizza party for the gang at Force One on Friday and it was much appreciated. I’m glad I could help, everyone had many thanks. While I was there for lunch with them, my new secondary parts showed up. What timing! I am hopeful the sled will be ready Monday. At that point, it will be an even swap, Nytro for Phazer.
The Phazer is going in for a decompression update kit for cold weather starting. I’ve been waiting forever for this so I’m hoping the parts are in now.
Remember the snow elimination kit they installed under warranty this fall?
It is a kit that is supposed to block snow from entering the engine area around the ‘A Frame Protector’. Well, it doesn’t work.
Tuesday Nate and I went riding in some nice powder, it was about –20 C (-4 F) and we were in the snow for an hour or so.
Today, it was –35 C (-31 F) and we were powder riding for a few hours. Are we nuts riding at that temp? Maybe, but it’s what we do. (And the engineers who test prototypes for cold weather issues should do the same!) It looks like it is going to be this cold for at least a week, and nobody wants to stop riding just cause of the temperature!
Needless to say, today was a great day of testing for Yamaha’s update kit for the snow intake issue on the Phazer, and I can confirm that the kit failed with flying colours. I got so much snow inside the engine compartment that my steering boots blew out again. No bent tie rods though, which is good. Looks like the boys will have to silicone the front end up again to seal the snow out.
But that isn’t the only problem associated with snow. Remember last year when so much ice build-up between the skid plate and the belly pan forced the skid plate right through the bolts that were holding it on?
I reinforced it with larger washers, and even those pushed right through the skid plate. I have more than 6 inches of solid ice between the skid plate and the belly pan. My Phazer is a low rider, the skid plate is almost dragging on the snow while riding on hard packed trail. It is an issue, and I don’t know if it is an issue on the Nytro’s or not, but I am waiting for my floatation plate to arrive and I will find out. At this point with the Phazer, it isn’t even worth having the skid plate on there. It causes me to get hung up and stuck in deep snow more than it does anything else. Not impressed with it.
On another note with the Phazer, at one point it sounded like it was running on one piston, and it gave me an 81 error code (voltage issue to the hand warmers) which has nothing to do with the motor’s performance right? I’m wondering if snow got into a connector that it shouldn’t have and caused some temporary malfunction.
Since using dielectric grease on all the connectors for the Nytro, I haven’t had a problem with error codes again, although it needs more cold weather testing to confirm that the dielectric grease was the fix (as suggested by Yamaha Canada)
While the Phazer is in for the decompression update, it will also receive new plastic side panels next to the muffler, a bump stop kit installation, and an exhaust turnout installation. And maybe they can take some pictures of the snowy intake disaster for Yamaha, both the steering area and the skid plate issue.
I am also going to have the clutch sea-leveled on the Phazer (finally lol) Gearing may be changed later but I’ll do that part.
The Nytro is coming from the shop with sea level clutching in it now, but gearing will remain stock until I test the differences in just the clutching.
So, what kind of rigorous testing did we put the sleds through today?
It was myself, Nate and Ray. Enjoy the pics!!
Cheers,
YK
My Favourite!! Thanks For Taking Awesome Pics Nate!
At first I was underestimating, or overestimating? The capability of the Phazer MTX vs. the Nytro MTX. The Nytro kicks its rear end in deep snow capability, but the Phazer is easier to carve, significantly easier…so while both are in the FX Chassis, nothing can take away the ease of carving that the Phazer offers. But the ice buildup still sucks!
KINS
Pro
Yellowknife said:
Yellowknife, a friend has given me a rack off his old Yamaha and I was going to move the tail light and install it behind my tour buddy.
I know you have had some good weight in your rack at times and am wondering if you think I should have any concerns about putting the rack on? Any thoughts?
Yellowknife
TY 4 Stroke Master
I think you'll be fine.
Rule of thumb, if you are bottoming out with weight back there, slow down, don't be pounding moguls with weight on the tunnel. That's it. If you aren't sno x'ing or dropping off roofs, you'll be fine.
Rule of thumb, if you are bottoming out with weight back there, slow down, don't be pounding moguls with weight on the tunnel. That's it. If you aren't sno x'ing or dropping off roofs, you'll be fine.
Yellowknife great posts! I've been reading your posts for awhile now very interesting. I may have missed it but what type of headgear do you and your friends find work the best. I'm just thinking if it works for your weather situations it should work anywhere. Some of my buds have problems but I think its usually from over dressing ,could also be from cheaping out on gear after buying supposedly quality gear only to have it not work. thanks for all the info that you share. 
