Sidewinder Helix

[DMCTurbo]

Just received my 35/39 Dalton helix - but it's been raining here for three days.......

Send it up to me and I'll try it out for ya

 

[newtron]

Sometimes guys try to clutch a four stroke like a two stroke. And coming from that side more so, its hard for me at times.. I kind of think of it this way > two strokes come on fast and hard down low and kind of drop off or flatten out fairly quick up top. So more helix angle(motor loads against) to start or down low where the most power is or comes on fastest, then as the power flattens out you have less helix angle. this helps hold your power curve instead of dropping off. So you might run a 46/40 helix (common).. 48/39.. etc.
The four stroke/TURBO, has a massive power band that starts fairly early, and lasts LONG and builds with more boost pressure.. SO you would start with a angle and increase the angle with boost and give the power something to work against. A straight angle helix ALSO works good (stock) because the Turbo power band lasts so long. Hence the pull your arms and keeps pulling with boost build. I think sometimes its hard to think you need maybe a smidge more helix angle on the finish(upper end/top end) with these sleds. Think about having that boost build-- something to work against(helix angle) instead of just revving out/ running out against a lower helix angle .. LOAD it against something. Have the most helix angle where the most power is in the power band(generally)..

The Viper/7000 cat had a big power band down low and held fairly decent but would drop off up top.. Not as drastic as a two stroke(but very close)..(General terms)
But no boost so not nearly as long or flat a power band.. So I believe most guys were running a helix with a higher number first and dropped from that.. Say 44/40

Hope this might help some guys. And surely there are many other variables involved in clutching a sled.. Sure there are other schools of thought on clutching also.. Just My two cents and still learning about the turbo side of things, my first turbo. Myself I have a straight 38 to run on my sled (boosted 13psi). I feel the straight angle is decent also.. But totally understand the 35/39 helix and why on this sled.

There is no boost build. It's pretty much instant. Some real drag turbo guys would run reverse angles in their sleds because they would actually have delayed turbo increase so they wouldn't lose traction. This is where the reverse angle would work well when boost was increased down the track.

There is no boost increase on our stock SW

I have had 2 hurricane viper turbos with his clutch kit and not once did he give a reverse helix even at 260 hp. I'm sure he might have an idea what maybe right for a turbo

 

[newtron]

I'm not dissing nospro and shagman. They have give me many tips. Just as a stock sled I don't think the reverse angle will work

 

[darv]

i have been running a roller in my apex 41-37 and thats what going to try in the SW.

 

[NOS-PRO]

I was thinking mine needs a 33-36 or in and around there.

Or a 34/37or 38

 

[NOS-PRO]

There is no boost build. It's pretty much instant. Some real drag turbo guys would run reverse angles in their sleds because they would actually have delayed turbo increase so they wouldn't lose traction. This is where the reverse angle would work well when boost was increased down the track.

There is no boost increase on our stock SW

I have had 2 hurricane viper turbos with his clutch kit and not once did he give a reverse helix even at 260 hp. I'm sure he might have an idea what maybe right for a turbo

There still is a build of boost on the winder. The sled idles at -1 or 0 and spikes up to 8 then tops out at 10 on my KOSO gauge (stock) in a very short time....shorter than all other turbos. Stage 4 goes from -1 or 0 to 12 and then up to 15 right away.

EVO is the one who showed me that turbo sleds need the reverse helix and how it works on the dyno and in the real world. After riding a turbo Viper last New Years with the reverse angle I was totally impressed with how it changed the whole sled.

Mentioned before, I always used regular helix's in my tuning because I never owned a turbo, I always had nitrous sleds. And yes, the nitrous is instant hpr and found out on radar runs the steeper finish angle pulled so much harder cause you made the engine work harder transferring power to the track. Now my Viper is turbo'd and I tried a regular helix on the sled (45/39 to be exact) because I didn't have any reverse angle helix's. The viper bogged off of the line, then pulled the skies at about 40 or so, then leveled out to where it seemed the sled had no oomph. Put a reverse angle 40/46 and you should see this Viper pull the skis, cat walk like no tomorrow and after this past weekend the viper with a 2.25 153" track is right beside a sidewinder BTX SE.

Shagman and myself have been clutching for years. I have personally worked with Olav Aaen on dyno, pipes for modded v-max 4's and of course clutching. Shagman has more miles on a sled racing at the SOO 500 than most guys out there. I have been an asphalt racing guy my whole life and when Shagman and I got together on a TY ride a few years ago.....you wouldn't believe the disagreements we had with clutching because he was going around corners on ice and snow, I was straightline on asphalt and we butted heads quite a bit with how clutching worked. But when we tore things down, tried different setups and tested at the track and on snow....I saw where he was coming from and Shagman saw where I was coming from. We both rode the trails hard and easy with groups. The Viper was a problem child with clutching and between both of us, found out the spring coil bind, casting flash problems, 8DN to 8JP and primary binding/sticky.

We do this on our spare time. We both have regular jobs that we work 50+ hours a week and test and play when we can. But the testing isn't just us.....it involves you also. Shag and I work with people and their sleds for no money and I know a bunch in this thread alone can attest to what I say. The pm's, emails, phone calls and FB posts are countless and we help each one. We are not a business and help out manufacturers/aftermarket companies do testing because they believe we get results fast, not afraid to tell the truth and best of all share our knowledge with everyone here. There is a reason my sled will run 128mph on snow, pull the skis at any mph....even after 105mph and cat walk like a lightweight 2 stroke. All our testing and results posted here are for you to help you decide what may be best with what we are testing. The results speak for themselves.

 

[dsimonRX1]

I have one of the 150 VMax 4's built in 1997 and I have put Aaen quads on it. Now I know who to turn to for advice!!!!

 

[Frozenstiff]

I had one of the early V-Max 4 sleds when they first came out way back in 1992.
Wished I would have know NOS-PRO way back then. I sure could have used his help. They were clutched terrible. LOL
I still have the nice picture they sent along with the sled as well on the wall in my shop.
Just last year, I saw one run 124 MPH on the gun, in about a 1/4 mile distance. The fuel smelled awesome.

 

[Byam]

i have been running a roller in my apex 41-37 and thats what going to try in the SW.

I am trying 41-37 to.

The new Gforce cam! Torsion adjustable on the fly Angle "LEG"can be change pretty fast to.

 

[swampcat]

There still is a build of boost on the winder. The sled idles at -1 or 0 and spikes up to 8 then tops out at 10 on my KOSO gauge (stock) in a very short time....shorter than all other turbos. Stage 4 goes from -1 or 0 to 12 and then up to 15 right away.

EVO is the one who showed me that turbo sleds need the reverse helix and how it works on the dyno and in the real world. After riding a turbo Viper last New Years with the reverse angle I was totally impressed with how it changed the whole sled.

Mentioned before, I always used regular helix's in my tuning because I never owned a turbo, I always had nitrous sleds. And yes, the nitrous is instant hpr and found out on radar runs the steeper finish angle pulled so much harder cause you made the engine work harder transferring power to the track. Now my Viper is turbo'd and I tried a regular helix on the sled (45/39 to be exact) because I didn't have any reverse angle helix's. The viper bogged off of the line, then pulled the skies at about 40 or so, then leveled out to where it seemed the sled had no oomph. Put a reverse angle 40/46 and you should see this Viper pull the skis, cat walk like no tomorrow and after this past weekend the viper with a 2.25 153" track is right beside a sidewinder BTX SE.

Shagman and myself have been clutching for years. I have personally worked with Olav Aaen on dyno, pipes for modded v-max 4's and of course clutching. Shagman has more miles on a sled racing at the SOO 500 than most guys out there. I have been an asphalt racing guy my whole life and when Shagman and I got together on a TY ride a few years ago.....you wouldn't believe the disagreements we had with clutching because he was going around corners on ice and snow, I was straightline on asphalt and we butted heads quite a bit with how clutching worked. But when we tore things down, tried different setups and tested at the track and on snow....I saw where he was coming from and Shagman saw where I was coming from. We both rode the trails hard and easy with groups. The Viper was a problem child with clutching and between both of us, found out the spring coil bind, casting flash problems, 8DN to 8JP and primary binding/sticky.

We do this on our spare time. We both have regular jobs that we work 50+ hours a week and test and play when we can. But the testing isn't just us.....it involves you also. Shag and I work with people and their sleds for no money and I know a bunch in this thread alone can attest to what I say. The pm's, emails, phone calls and FB posts are countless and we help each one. We are not a business and help out manufacturers/aftermarket companies do testing because they believe we get results fast, not afraid to tell the truth and best of all share our knowledge with everyone here. There is a reason my sled will run 128mph on snow, pull the skis at any mph....even after 105mph and cat walk like a lightweight 2 stroke. All our testing and results posted here are for you to help you decide what may be best with what we are testing. The results speak for themselves.

AMEN Brother.

 

[bleedyamaha]

Another reason to set the clutching like this is so that you always know your not slipping the belt on a longer run at top end.
You think a guy could run a reverse helix without any other mods besides studs ?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[shagman]

Yes.


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[**sj**]

another factor in all of this...one needs to remember that with different helix choices...different brands measure up differently...and progressive angles...and then running different weights than a poster...and their profiles etc can come with different outcomes...

then you can add different states of tune/boost....

thats why guys can often chase their tails when making too many changes at once...or blatantly following what works for one scenario wont for theirs..just saying..

 

[Frozenstiff]

Have you had a chance to ride your sled yet ? How many miles you got on it now ?

another factor in all of this...one needs to remember that with different helix choices...different brands measure up differently...and progressive angles...and then running different weights than a poster...and their profiles etc can come with different outcomes...

then you can add different states of tune/boost....

thats why guys can often chase their tails when making too many changes at once...or blatantly following what works for one scenario wont for theirs..just saying..

 

[**sj**]

I had one of the early V-Max 4 sleds when they first came out way back in 1992.
Wished I would have know NOS-PRO way back then. I sure could have used his help. They were clutched terrible. LOL
I still have the nice picture they sent along with the sled as well on the wall in my shop.
Just last year, I saw one run 124 MPH on the gun, in about a 1/4 mile distance. The fuel smelled awesome.

I had a 1992 max4 also...beautiful looking sled...

yep...loving the SW so far..