Starter, Gears and One Way Clutch Inspection

[grizztracks]

Two more starter failures in the shop this week. These starter magnets are causing a lot of problems. I believe they slip or partially slip in the housing causing them to crack and eventually fall apart. From what I've been seeing it looks like all these failures begin with a poor quality OEM starter and the failed gears or starter clutch is a result of that


The first started dropped the magnets and took out the idler gear:

This is the damage that occured from that starter failure

This starter had the magnets slip and rotate out of phase. You can see one magnet cracked but it didn't brake off and jam the starter so the idler gear was not damaged. The starter still rotated but acted as if the gears were skipping which most likely was the starter clutch locking and then releasing due to the inconsistent rotation. The starter clutch was damaged as a result of this starter being out of phase.

 

[Stubbs]

Any idea what year the starter quality took a dump? And is this limited to the 3 bangers, or 4 holers as well?

 

[grizztracks]

I don't think there have been any major change in Yamaha starter motors over the years and these problems are occurring on all models and years. In 2014 the Viper was having significant problems that prompted them to update the idler gear making it stronger. I believe all the Yamaha snowmobiles use the same starter and this magnet problem is consistently showing up not only in snowmobiles but I've also changed several in Yamaha ATV's over the years.

The last two snowmobile starters I replaced were in a 2008 Vector and a 2010 Vector. I don't always see gear or clutch damage but almost always see a problem with the magnets. I don't understand Yamaha making the brushes available because I haven't yet ran into a failed starter that just needed new brushes.

 

[Stubbs]

Thanks Grizz

 

[cannondale27]

Yes thanks grizz. Those don’t even look burned like from solenoid/relay sticking. Is it just the glue is junk starting all this carnage?

 

[Deeppow16]

My starter just did the same thing but on my nytro. I'm sure some of your have seen my post form a few days ago but if not here is the picture of the failure.

 

[cannondale27]

My starter just did the same thing but on my nytro. I'm sure some of your have seen my post form a few days ago but if not here is the picture of the failure.

That one has some burn marks.

 

[Deeppow16]

Nope not that one. Mine was the one where my starter locked up because the magnet broke off and spun and catching the starter locking it up. Its in the nytro section.

 

[Deeppow16]

That one has some burn marks.

Sorry I miss read your post. Yeah tried to start it for awhile hoping it would magically start working again. That's probably where the burn marks came from. I ended up getting a new relay, starter, and battery so everything will be new now.

 

[grizztracks]

Yes thanks grizz. Those don’t even look burned like from solenoid/relay sticking. Is it just the glue is junk starting all this carnage?

Both of those starters were in sleds with less than 3,000 miles. I don't believe a bad relay is causing this issue. One thought that I've had is how many Vipers out there with start issues or gear failures were actually caused by loose magnets in a failing starter motor. I know we have been contributing the gear failures to kickback but could it be also contributed to an inadequate starter. All it takes is for a magnet to rotate slightly for the starter to start fighting itself and to put a increased load on the battery. The extra draw could also be dropping voltage to the ECU causing it to struggle with processing information. Maybe I'm reaching here but it makes me wonder how many of the Vipers that tore gears out had starters with magnet failures.

 

[Deeppow16]

Both of those starters were in sleds with less than 3,000 miles. I don't believe a bad relay is causing this issue. One thought that I've had is how many Vipers out there with start issues or gear failures were actually caused by loose magnets in a failing starter motor. I know we have been contributing the gear failures to kickback but could it be also contributed to an inadequate starter. All it takes is for a magnet to rotate slightly for the starter to start fighting itself and to put a increased load on the battery. The extra draw could also be dropping voltage to the ECU causing it to struggle with processing information. Maybe I'm reaching here but it makes me wonder how many of the Vipers that tore gears out had starters with magnet failures.

My nytro failed at 3100 miles.

 

[grizztracks]

Sorry I miss read your post. Yeah tried to start it for awhile hoping it would magically start working again. That's probably where the burn marks came from. I ended up getting a new relay, starter, and battery so everything will be new now.

I highly recommend pulling the stator cover to inspect at least the gears and while in there update the idler gear.

 

[Deeppow16]

I highly recommend pulling the stator cover to inspect at least the gears and while in there update the idler gear.

This is on a 08 FX nytro not a vector. Does that matter? Also wouldn't the teeth on the starter bet wore out if it was bad because my teeth didn't have a single mark in them.

 

[grizztracks]

All the 3 cylinder 4 stroke engines use the same starter and gear setup. The updated idler gear is stronger and wider than the original and is interchangeable with all the 3 cylinders from 05 to 15. It's a good idea to update it but that's up to you.

Idler gear update: 8ES-15512-01-00

 

[Deeppow16]

All the 3 cylinder 4 stroke engines use the same starter and gear setup. The updated idler gear is stronger and wider than the original and is interchangeable with all the 3 cylinders from 05 to 15. It's a good idea to update it but that's up to you.

Idler gear update: 8ES-15512-01-00

O good to know! Thanks!